posted by MH

Jun 26, 2007 10:04AM

Umm, gee, I don't know, pretend it was a swastika instead of a Maoist symbol and see if there's any justification then.

Americans are obviously relatively unaware of conflicts between other non-English speaking countries, but if you buy something "vintage" or "secondhand" in a country with a history of political oppression, odds are you're buying something representative of that history. Not to mention that Cam, as an enlightened hippie citizen, is probably familiar with the red Communist star, even if she can't read Chinese--I imagine she could have taken a guess at the bag's symbolism.

Obviously there are cultural nuances in apparel and symbolism that someone from an outside culture might miss, but assuming you do all this travel to broaden your horizons, yes, you should educate yourself about the meaning of the things you see and the things you buy.

posted by Matthew

Jun 26, 2007 10:13AM

I totally agree with you MH. I didn't mean to seem culturally insensitive here. I guess I was speaking more in terms of her intent. I think you might be giving her too much credit.... :P

posted by a lady

Jun 26, 2007 10:19AM

I think, as Jezebel pointed out, it's amazing that no one's saying anything about her having bought it in china. http://jezebel.com/gossip/dirt-bag/larry-king-set-to-endure-an-entire-hour-of-conversation-with-paris-hilton-271862.php

and speaking as a peruvian whose parents took her out of their country because of the threat from Shining Path in the 80s, I don't personally find it offensive, but I do find it insensitive, especially given that the part of peru she was in was the part that suffered the most. it was such a huge presence that even toddlers knew about it: at my third birthday we played "soldiers and terrorists," the latter being Shining Path.

posted by Matthew

Jun 26, 2007 10:22AM

Okay, umm.....I'm humbled here.

posted by MH

Jun 26, 2007 10:23AM

No, I'm sure her intentions were good. Or rather, her intentions were neutral--she wanted a souvenir that looked cool. But is that really a justification? I don't think we should necessarily give a free pass to the "ugly Americans" souvenir-shopping around the world without any regard to the history of the places they visit. Especially not a woman with a PR team, who should have prevented it in the first place to protect her image as an enlightened individual :) Plus, I don't know if you've ever been to China, but that star (along with little red books and portraits of Mao) is freakin' everywhere, they're shoved at tourists left and right. She'd have to be retarded not to get it, and from there its an ethical call as to whether you want to carry around a symbol that represents a violent history. More likely she just didn't care, and that make an apology valid.

posted by i dont just like you. I like you, like you.

Jun 26, 2007 11:34AM

Well we walk around with the American flag on everything. People walk around with British and Spanish flags stitched on their clothes and stuff. One mans badge of pride is another’s symbol of hatred.

She didn’t KNOW it was offensive to people and she said sorry to those that may have been offended. I think that’s what was called for.

posted by Laia

Jun 26, 2007 11:50AM

It just sucks because she's famous. She doesn't HAVE to apologize, but she does because she's in the public eye. That's it. In general I think the whole thing was blown way out of proportion.

posted by jack

Jun 26, 2007 12:33PM

I'm glad she apologised, it seems appropriate. It's dunny but clothes can be hurtful; upon seeing the balenciaga keffiyeh scarf a member of my family said they would be personally offended if somone wore it in their presence.

posted by guest

Jun 26, 2007 12:34PM

spelling mistake - i meant funny

posted by Sir

Jun 26, 2007 1:01PM

Celebrities often complain when their right of privacy (which, by the way, is imputed, not explicit, and existing under a "penumbra" constructed from a few Amendments to the Constitution) is impinged upon by the snapping of so many paparazzi photos and, at the same time, they zealously guard their right of publicity from misappropriation or abuse by any third party. As a matter of course, celebrities prone to protecting their image via the strength of the right of publicity as public figures should also be conscious of the fact that mistakes made in the course of utilizing their celebrity, for better or worse, could potentially come under the scrutiny of the larger public and, if not by an appreciable sampling of the domestic audience, then, quite possibly, at times, by an international one.

If Diaz was caught wearing this bag in America, there would probably be no issue. But Diaz screwed up on an international basis and this takes her outside of the defenses she could normally assert under the First Amenment which might help salvage her decision to do something mindless. Thus, I believe that Diaz's apology for her mishandling of sensitive cultural issues is appropriate and she should, in turn, do better to monitor her decisions to do, or to refrain from doing, certain things a little better next time.

posted by Thalassa

Jun 26, 2007 1:06PM

MH: The Swastika is a more complicated symbol than the Red Star.

For millions and millions of Hindus, the Swastika is a very holy and auspicious symbol. It is also a symbol with very positive significance in ancient Greece.

Granted, this is the Swastika that runs in the opposite direction to the one on the Nazi flag, but still to a lay person both of them look alike.

Basically when Hitler was trying to invent an Aryan past for the Germans, he just appropriated an ancient Aryan symbol.

So now you have the absurd situation of Hindus in Europe and the US unable to display one of the most ancient symbols of their religion for fear of being taken as neo-Nazi. No such taboos in India though, the Swastika is everywhere.

posted by Thalassa

Jun 26, 2007 1:13PM

Jack: What's so offensive about the keffiyeh? This is almost as absurd as saying that someone wouldn't wear jeans because they were ALSO worn by the 911 terrorists. The keffiyeh is traditional headgear for the Middle-East, the fact that members of Hamas also wear it is incidental (as I said, they also wear jeans).

posted by jack

Jun 26, 2007 1:19PM

blah blah it's complicated and personal. I do think the keffiyeh is a little more sensitive than jeans though, due to its more specific nature. Just as Cameron offended the Peruvians but we're not so fussed about it, similarly someone might find the scarf offensive whilst other think they're just a terrorism obsessed bigot.

posted by guest

Jun 26, 2007 1:20PM

Well she has to apologize, because she'd look horrible if she didn't, but really... Cameron probably had NO IDEA what it said. Even if she had asked someone to translate it, she probably would think "'serve the people'? That's fine!" and have no clue about the ideas behind it. However, it wouldn't have been a bad idea for her to check the meaning before she wore it.

posted by guest

Jun 26, 2007 1:20PM

Well she has to apologize, because she'd look horrible if she didn't, but really... Cameron probably had NO IDEA what it said. Even if she had asked someone to translate it, she probably would think "'serve the people'? That's fine!" and have no clue about the ideas behind it. However, it wouldn't have been a bad idea for her to check the meaning before she wore it.

posted by Glenn

Jun 26, 2007 1:26PM

I have a similiar bag, with the same words, but with Mao's face on it. I bought it in Hong Kong and have traveled around the world with it. You cannot compare Mao to Hitler - the legacy of Mao is much more complicated. A few years ago I was reporting on a Chinese punk concert in Harbin, which is in northern China, and a lot of the Chinese kids were sporting the same bag and also the coats of the People's Liberation Army. The north did fairly well under Maoism, so there is nostalgia for some of the benefits of Socialism. I don't think she should have to apologize, but awareness of the meaning of clothing and symbols while traveling is important. I wouldn't carry my Mao bag in Nepal for example, for fear of being attacked by anti-Maoists or arrested and questioned by the police. And again, comparing Mao to Hitler is specious and cliched.

posted by a lady

Jun 26, 2007 1:38PM

you wouldn't not carry it in nepal because it's insulting?

posted by Courtney

Jun 26, 2007 1:40PM

I don't think they sell items emblazoned with swastikas at souvenier shops in Germany, so it's not really an apt comparison.

She made an honest mistake that frankly the vast majority of Americans could possibly make, but accident or not, she offended people, and therefore an aoplogy was appropriate.

posted by Glenn

Jun 26, 2007 1:49PM

a lady: I stated why I would not carry it in Nepal - go back and read it again, doll. The Maoist guerrillas are now more legitimate participants in the government of Nepal, however I'm sure there is still a lot of animosity against them. Not all Maoists are evil. I'm offened every time I see someone wearing an American Flag and "These colors don't run" t-shirt. Where's my apology? When is Bush going to apolgize for this country's history of imperialism and war-mongering? Of course it's more amusing to pick on an innocuous celebrity for carrying a bag that is not exactly the ulimate symbol of evil all over the world. A lot of Chinese still respect Mao. That's all.

posted by MH

Jun 26, 2007 1:55PM

Thalassa: The day I see a celebrity out in public in a swastika t-shirt will be a cold day in hell indeed. Because no matter how much or how little you meant by wearing a controversial symbol, if you're someone who is likely to have your picture taken and sent all over the globe, it's a stupid thing to do. Celebrity gifting suites and PR freebies wouldn't exist if it weren't a fact that celebrities wearing an item is an implicit endorsement of said item. When said item is emblazoned with a controversial symbol (like Communist stars, Che t-shirts, Nazi/Indian swastikas, Confederate flags, etc.) the celebrity inserts themself into the public dialogue regarding the meaning of those symbols, which is why they should take care with what they mean.

Also, In the same way I would apologize to you if I stepped on your foot in the subway (even though I don't really care that I did) celebrities should have to apologize for their gaffes when people are hurt or offended. It makes the world go round.

posted by a lady

Jun 26, 2007 2:20PM

you're speaking to the daughter of socialist activists in south america and the girlfriend of a chinese scholar...I'm not a flag waver. if you read carefully, you'll notice it was more of a rhetorical question...one having to do with not carrying something out of respect, rather than fear.

posted by jack

Jun 26, 2007 2:24PM

say it lady!

posted by Glenn

Jun 26, 2007 2:31PM

LADY: Frankly, I might carry it in Nepal to support the Maoist guerrillas--but wouldn't want to be inconvenienced by police/military harrassment. In this case, carrying the bag might be seen as respect for the people who've had to put up with Nepal's kooky royal family.

posted by a lady

Jun 26, 2007 2:33PM

I'm fascinated to hear your position on Tibet, too, but I'll leave that for now. game over, you win, hope it feels validating.

posted by Glenn

Jun 26, 2007 2:53PM

lady: You seem awfully passive-aggressive. I support the people of Tibet and stated earlier that I feel that Mao's legacy is complicated - it's not a black and white issue, so I don't support all actions related to Maoism that have occurred in every point in history.
Have a fabulous day.

posted by Chels

Jun 26, 2007 3:18PM

There's a huge difference between carrying that bag in the U.S. and carrying it in a country where that holds such meaning. And as a world traveler, who trys to brand herself as aware and supportive of other cultures, she should have known better.

I think it's akin to something with Che on it. You can wear that around, say, Northwestern's campus without problem, but you'd probably have a problem wearing around Little Havana. And if you're so unaware that you don't know wearing a Che t-shirt in Little Havana would have issues, you probably should have done more homework before your visit. It's not like she ended up in that part of Peru by accident.

One of the great things about fashion and clothing is that it's always communicating something, even if we don't realize or agree with the message.

posted by Thalassa

Jun 26, 2007 4:19PM

MH: You'd better not travel to India ever if the Swastika disturbs you so much. It is literally everywhere, from the cities to the tiniest villages.

As I said, it is an auspicious symbol, has been for thousands of years, and just because it was appropriated by the Nazis (duplicitously) does not mean the people of India would stop using it.

There is nothing controversial about the Indian Swastika. For heaven's sake, Swastika is a Sanskrit word.

A celebrity wearing an Indian Swastika would only bother me if it is -

a) a cultural appropriation without adequate understanding
b) an overt endorsement of religion

posted by aB

Jun 26, 2007 4:38PM

People make mistakes; i don't think Cameron should apologize. She's entitled to her own opinion (even though she had no knowledge of the true meaning or history).

...if she hadn't bought it, someone else would have. right?

posted by MH

Jun 26, 2007 5:38PM

Thalassa: That's exactly my point. This is a perfect example of cultural appropriation without adequate understanding. She took a symbol that is neutral in some contexts (America) auspicious in some (some Chinese citizens, Oberlin students) and negative in others (Peru) and wore it without regard for the people around her.

Seeing the swastika in its original context in India didn't bother me at all (anthropology major that I was) but seeing it worn by an American celebrity visiting, say, the Holocaust Museum, would be completely inappropriate, as this was.

posted by Anonymous

Jun 26, 2007 5:58PM

Ignorance is not an excuse. For someone like Cameron who makes political statements routinely and fancies herself an activist, she should have been more informed and an apology was necessary and appropriate. And I completely agree that many people wear the Che shirts without any knowledge of what it actually represents.

posted by Thalassa

Jun 26, 2007 8:56PM

MH: Excellent point. I completely agree.

posted by Brianna

Jun 29, 2007 9:46PM

If she believes in socialism, she has every right to wear that bag. Socialism isn't a bad thing. On the other hand, she couldn't have picked a different bag out of the hundreds she owns?? :D