posted by guest

Jul 31, 2007 9:54AM

Those pictures are shocking!! I don't blame Fashionista.com or any of the models listed above. How can you blame anyone for a disease like anorexia? Yes, of course there is a problem and it is perpetuated by the images young girls see. I think it is hard to blame the fashion industry, it is hard to blame the parents of the young girls who suffer from this and it is hard to blame the girls themselves.

Society's mentality has to change i suppose -- but of course right now "thin is in."

posted by Sydney

Jul 31, 2007 10:18AM

How are these pictures shocking? They look like the MODELS you guys idolize. Nobody is saying models need to be a size 8, but letting all the gay men who run fashion elevate the emaciated physique to that of cool is beyond ridiculous.

posted by guest

Jul 31, 2007 10:31AM

I think that I said they were shocking because of the way the girl is over the toilet. I just cant understand wanting to be that thin! I don't idolize models, so i just dont understand.

posted by Rebe

Jul 31, 2007 10:33AM

Sydney, i agree with much of what you say, but this statement, "Nobody is saying models need to be a size 8", makes it seem as though size 8 is at the farthest and most absurd end of the spectrum.

I say, why the eff not? The myth that clothes look better on bony bodies is just that--- a myth. Certain styles (tent dresses and the like) took better on the trim. Other styles (like wrap dresses and really, fitted dresses in general) look best on curvy women with small waists. I think a true size 8 would be a fine size for models, and not just in the plus size clothing realm (blech).

The problem w/ America and obesity/eating disorders is the lack of a visible middle ground in terms of ideal size for women. We essentially are told that one can must be very thin (a size 0-4);barring that, one might as well throw one's hands up in the air and obliterate one's body through neglect and overeating. There isn't much middle ground, and that is sad.

posted by Cassette Love

Jul 31, 2007 10:37AM

"Nobody is saying models need to be a size 8"

And yet what's wrong with models being a size 8? Christ, I miss the 80's.

posted by Ilene

Jul 31, 2007 10:47AM

most models today are from russia or eastern europe. have you ever been to either of those places? it's the norm; everyone is skinny. plus let's stop to consider that a lot of these models are under 20. when i was 16 i ate whatever i wanted and still maintained a size 2.
(also, on a side note, the chinese character for russia means "land of the starving people", which is think is pretty appropriate for most of the younger generation...)

posted by tasha

Jul 31, 2007 11:14AM

There were way worse pictures on the profile of the girl you linked to than what you put in this entry. And I found it ironic that she has a picture up of Giselle in the Got Milk ad.

You know what's worse than this? Anorexic fetish porn.

posted by The Stiletto Effect

Jul 31, 2007 11:24AM

i think "myspace" should not allow this kind of personal pages!
:(

posted by patentleather

Jul 31, 2007 12:25PM

eh- this reminds me of prep school "group purging." the thing is, unless you have the genetic luck to be that thin naturally starving yourself, diet pills, purging, etc may make your body hot temporarily but they quickly take a nasty toll on your face. i'd rather be pretty than skinny.

i miss the days when models were amazonian size sixes...

posted by guest

Jul 31, 2007 12:38PM

hmm..
1) i disagree that models should be a size 8. models should be tiny tiny tall beautiful freaks of nature, thats what makes them models.. and the girl in the cube next to you, not so much. skinny models = good

2) a lot of models are naturally skinny. sure, some of them take extremes and some go to far, etc, but for the most part they were born to, uh, model!

3) you cant blame models or the fashion industry for people starving themselves. fact is, in the 90s when people like cindy crawford ruled the runway tons of girls were still 'rexic. its a disease.

ugh, this kind of debate really bothers me. everyone looks for a scape goat, but the fact is that its really a personal thing and there isn't any societal issue to blame.

posted by alii

Jul 31, 2007 1:59PM

after seeing a few sites on myspace.. i just.. i'm speechless.. i can't say a word

posted by rachel

Jul 31, 2007 2:12PM

i got some animal abusers deleted on myspace, but then they show up right back again with private accounts.......evil dog fighters and animal abusers......

posted by sicksix

Jul 31, 2007 2:14PM

as stated, eating disorders are diseases, much like alcoholism and drug abuse. examples of all can be found in the 'view pics' sections of a large number of profiles on myspace. it's to be understood that such a huge network of people will have sects of pro-ana/ed or other destructive behavior groups, much like any of the trillion pro-ed/thinspiration/drug/alch./etc that can be found on LJ or other blogging communities. Myspace is a poor watch dog for dangers; even though profiles of 13yr olds are private we still have 'to catch a predator'. i think it just boils down to what is and is not illegal. it is illegal to solicit minors; it is not illegal to think you are fat until you starve down to your birth weight.

posted by Kendall

Jul 31, 2007 2:54PM

The pictures of those girls really don't look any different from models you see on the runway today; so I am surprised that Fashionista was shocked. Furthermore, it seems a bit contradictory to talk about too skinny girls yet idolize Snejana, Vlada, Freja, Agyness, etc.

That said, those Myspace groups and pictures really do frighten me. I think our cultutre is heading in a frightening direction - people are either starving themselves or obese these days. Whatever happened to a healthy norm? In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with the 80s, when models were a size 6 or 8.

I hate to say it, because I love fashion, but I think people who say the fashion world isn't partly to blame for these scary ideals are deluded. I am 17 and consider myself to be fairly confident and intelligent, but yes; I do feel inadequate in my size 6 jeans when every successful model or actress in my age group looks like she has an eating disorder.

Yes, some people are naturally skinny. But let's face it - the majority of these girls are malnourishing themselves to look like this. I just wish people would stop debating so much about weight, and instead just DO something to change it. Sort of like the new BMI rules in Italy - there was all this fuss made, yet extremely unhealthy looking models still walked for all the major designers.

At this point, it doesn't look like things actually will change. It's a really sad situation, and quite a disturbing reflection of our culture today.

posted by KA

Jul 31, 2007 3:15PM

50% of women 18 and over buy plus-size clothing

29% of girls 18-24 do.

Those who pointed out that many of the girls are from poor(er) countries where everyone is thin has a point....they're born and bred that way. In addition, many of them haven;t reached total physical maturity, so they're going to be thinner anyways.

But the saddest part of this story is not that people are starving themselves to get thin, it's that they're shouldn't be such a huge disparity between them and the rest of us!! Look at those statistics I posted. Those number should be MUCH lower

It's a shame the models have to be so thin, but there are many fewer girls becoming bulemic or anorexic than there are people becoming obese.

It should also be noted that at its core, anorexia nervosa has been proven to be partially genetic and also driven by stress factors, so the models play a role in a small group of individuals' cases.

I'm much more worried about the chubby kids and obese adults, and everyone else should be, too. I can't help but be saddened by their condition.

posted by Faran

Jul 31, 2007 3:18PM

KA, agreed, but nobody's posted a MySpace ring for fat children who revel in the number of calories they've consumed... yet.

posted by rachel

Jul 31, 2007 3:39PM

i look forward for another rachel williams, and a cindy crawford type body to be used in shoots myself, as fashion goes in cycles. myspace is not to blame for the problem-these people already existed. it is a new forum for all types of interests, good and bad. on a positive note, myspace has helped to catch a lot of bad people.....detectives use it like they use classmates.com......

posted by KA

Jul 31, 2007 3:46PM

Faran- I know, that's exactly my point. Of course I wouldn't want a social website devoted to the glorification of obesity (that's really morbid).

I just think that since there's so many more people with obesity issues ad therefore a disproportionate amount of media attention is paid to skinny models.

I also mean that the skinny models wouldn't seem so skinny compared to everyone else if everyone else wasn't so....big! The perfect size 6, back in the day, was still really small (just not so much smaller than everyone else wearing the clothes).

posted by jac

Jul 31, 2007 4:18PM

I do blame the media (the fashion industry is included in this, as are the mens mags). Parents can only do so much to shelter their children from the things and ideals they see EVERYWHERE. Real people come in all sizes, but the people idolized and displayed in magazines come in only a few. To not blame the media would be the most ignorant thing imaginable. Real people arent embodying the message that thin is beautiful, the media is feeding it to us. I dont think these myspaces are a good thing, but taking them down just adds to the hopelessnessthese people feel with themselves.

posted by mary

Jul 31, 2007 4:26PM

everytime i read these assaults on magazines and the media in general, it frustrates me. as a teenage girl myself, and one definitely susceptible to the pressures to be thin, i think it is hardly a matter of the media at all. unless you are locked in a room with only a computer and the latest vogue, you see people everywhere. you know the shapes they come in, you know your family history and the way that your friends look. i would say that i am way more influenced by the real people around me. there are tons of perfect people, and imperfect people, and everyone should be attuned to the realities of the world. changing the content of magazines isn't going to solve anything, it will just be stifling to the people who make them.

posted by mary

Jul 31, 2007 4:37PM

also; though i'm reluctant to post this, because it's pretty personal, for the sake of the debate, i will: the high school that i attended for part of freshmen year was poorer and comprised more of overweight students. i was the skinniest of all my friends. i always ate what i wanted and never thought much about it. but then starting sophomore year i transferred to a different school. it was more image based, and all my friends and the majority of the people around me had great bodies. mine is not bad in any way, but it was during that year i started considering certain options for improving my body and curtailing my weight.
for encouragement i would often think of one of my good friends who was quite thin and looked very good in her skinny jeans.
luckily it never progressed to a really serious point, but the thing is, whether you're getting your "thinspiration" from editorials with gemma or runway shots of snejana, or from one your friends at school, there always will be someone better looking, skinnier, etc. and it's seriously a waste of time and effort to stamp that irreversible fact out of existence.

posted by Rebe

Jul 31, 2007 7:25PM

"1) i disagree that models should be a size 8. models should be tiny tiny tall beautiful freaks of nature, thats what makes them models.. and the girl in the cube next to you, not so much. skinny models = good"

Tall, ok. Beautiful, sure. But why tiny? Why is that necessary?

When Sophie Dahl was discovered by Isabella Blow, she was a size 14!

She was amazing even then, but the clothes probably fit her best as a size 10 (as she gradually downsized). I don't know what size she is now, but her gauntness makes her look bug eyed, and even the clothes don't look as good.

'2) a lot of models are naturally skinny. sure, some of them take extremes and some go to far, etc, but for the most part they were born to, uh, model!"

Um, yeah. Keep telling yourself that.

posted by guest

Jul 31, 2007 7:41PM

I just about cried.
That is so sad.

posted by guest

Jul 31, 2007 8:06PM

rebe sweeeeety i dont need to keep telling myself that. i do model and i know many models and i might not gorge myself on mcdonalds and ice cream everynight but i certainly eat 3 balanced meals with a caloric intake of 2000 calories each day. i dont think watching what i eat and making good, healthy decisions is a bad thing. if i did eat disgusting i would still probably be a size 0. everyone in my family is tall and very thin. its called genetics some people are gifted while others are umm, not. so dont even start with that everyone is born a size 6 and some people just starve themselves crap. people OBVIOUSLY come in all different sizes naturally and unless you are really as dumb as your first appear, you would understand that some people are born tall and teeny tiny. its people like you and reinforce the image that overweight is healthy and fine and are perpetuating the obesity epedemic in america..which, i agree with KA, is by the numbers a MUCH bigger problem.

i wont even get into why models shouldn't be fat right now. but, they shouln't.

posted by MegO

Jul 31, 2007 8:23PM

The combined impact of that myspace page, this post and the preceding comments compelled me to walk upstairs to the work vending machine, get a snickers bar, and enjoy every bite of it.

posted by CM

Jul 31, 2007 8:49PM

This post has sparked some great debate. A note to the editors: From a news perspective, I understand linking to the actual MySpace page. On the other hand, a lot of your readers are teens (as evidenced in these comments) and I worry about the possibility of at-risk girls linking over there-- girls who might not otherwise have known about it. I think the piece would have the same value with the photo and description of the MySpace content and without the link. Of course anyone who is really determined could still seek it out, but that way you're not making it so easy.

posted by rachel

Jul 31, 2007 9:34PM

cm, teens are well aware of eating disorders, before fashionista.com.........i think it is silly to say that this blog is contributing to anorexia. that being said, you are entitled to your opinion as i am.......

posted by Faran

Jul 31, 2007 9:35PM

Hey CM,

Thanks for your note. The reason we linked to the disturbing page is that if we didn't, our readers (and potentially the MySpace team) wouldn't realize how serious and upsetting the "Thin Cult" really is.

That unveiling seemed more important than the risks.

One thing our teen readers have shown us, over and over again, is that they can find ANYTHING with a few clicks of the mouse.

And it's important to realize that most teen girls, and most teen readers, are quite capable of balancing their own body images with larger "media" driven images of models, actresses, and skeletons.

You'll note the "Thin Cult" on MySpace has many members in their 20s and 30s, and many young women in their teens are more concerned with their grades, their friends, their passions, and (yes) their clothes than showing their ribs.

The "Thin Cult" and what it represents isn't an age thing, and it's not even necessarily a fashion thing. It's a cultural thing. To keep discussing it, we need to show it.

Hope that explains why we posted the link.

--F

posted by CM

Jul 31, 2007 10:37PM

Thanks, Faran. I appreciate your explanation. As someone who suffered with both anorexia and bulimia, I definitely want to put a stop to these damaging MySpace networks. I do see the argument for exposing them.

I agree that many teens are concerned about grades, friends and other passions, but appearance (and weight) is often at the top of the list of their worries.

A new U.K. study shows that half of girls ages 12-15 name their appearance as their biggest worry, and one in four girls ages 10-11 report worrying about the way they look 'quite a lot' and 'a lot'. The National Eating Disorders Association (a U.S. org) reports that over one-half of teenage girls use unhealthy weight control behaviors such as skipping meals, fasting, smoking cigarettes, vomiting, and taking laxatives.

And rachel, I wasn't implying that Fashionista contributes to anorexia or that teens don't already know about eating disorders, just that they might not have heard about that MySpace page. I think fashionista.com is doing a great thing by encouraging discussion on this important topic!

posted by rachel

Jul 31, 2007 11:24PM

i agree, cm

posted by Bonnie Lass | Devil's Advocate

Aug 01, 2007 3:38AM

1.) How can it be the media's fault when it's apparent some people cannot distinguish fantasy from reality? Why are some people not content to just look through the proverbial keyhole? Why must they try to crawl through it?

2.) Eating disorders are an addiction. And I will go out on a limb and say those who do get caught up in anorexia and bulemia could have also fallen victim to any other addiction, if the social stimulus was different.

And truthfully, fashion mags and the like may plant that seed of doubt into someone's head -- but why is it some people respond to them with such extremes, while other simply drop 10 pounds and leave it at that?

It's like in college -- you had people that could do coke and then never look back. But you also had others who did a line and continued on a downward spiral. It's a genetic flaw.

The media's just too convenient of a target.

Now, here's where I live up to my nickname of Bonnie Ass:

The fashion/beauty industry and poor body-image/self-esteem will forever exist side-by-side. There's no way around it.

Look, we can all sit around typing about the industry and media and how evil everything is, and how we need legislation(!) on the subject, but truth be told, it's always going to be like this. Because when we're face to face we're friends and encouraging and supportive. But everyone here knows deep down inside we're all passive-aggressive bitches and we're forever sizing up each other in the back of our minds.

Which probably does more to erode someone's confidence about their body than any magazine spread ever will.

posted by rachel

Aug 01, 2007 1:47PM

i like you bonnie, well said.

posted by Rebe

Aug 01, 2007 10:21PM

I don't give a damn what you do for a living. You spell like a 7th grader, and your childish obstinacy regarding the issues surrounding statements such as "like, models are, like, naturally thin' and "eww, size 6s = fatties" suggest the arrogant ignorance of youth. Which, if you do in fact model, proves my point.

These are clothes, being marketed mainly towards the wealthy adult women who can afford them, being modeled mainly by undenourished teenagers.

Even Vogue acknowleged that there might be a problem with the current system.

"its people like you and reinforce the image that overweight is healthy and fine and are perpetuating the obesity epedemic in america..which, i agree with KA, is by the numbers a MUCH bigger problem."

You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. The fact that you feel the need to attack me in a personal manner regarding how I and people like me are pushing America into accepting obesity is ludicrous. if you had read my original post, you would have seen that I too think that obesity is a huge problem, much bigger of a problem than anorexia. But I think it is the lack of a middle ground is the cause. yes, "people OBVIOUSLY come in all different sizes", and that includes people who were born to be size 2s and people born to be size 8s. And the size 2s are not necessarily any more "genetically gifted"; ugly comes in sample sizes, too.

posted by leigh

Aug 01, 2007 11:17PM

honestly, size 8 is not fat.

it only 1 size bigger than a 6, which is not considered fat either!

sometimes, once you hit 10, 12, 14..
you are probably overweight.
unless your just muscular..

but i don't see why 8 is the chosen size here..
i know tons of people size 8 & they're gorgeous.

posted by rachel

Aug 02, 2007 7:14AM

ten and 12 are not fat, if you are of tall height

posted by Erin

Aug 02, 2007 2:59PM

I'm a size 10 & 5'4" (omg I she MUST be FAT) and yet if I were to lose just 10 more pounds...i'd look like death. The number of the size you are is just that...a NUMBER. I think it's kind of pathetic that people are so fixated on peoples sizes. geez.

Luckily for me, i'm (mostly) secure with myself and don't let the perfect women in media dictate the way I think about myself. Of course it'd be great to look like them, but alas, perfection in human beings is not real. Most people should realize that.

I'm sure the media plays a part in eating disorders, but most of it, I believe, is the girls' (and boys) own insecurites that they probably had long before they cared about the models/actresses that todays society worships.

posted by Elaine

Aug 05, 2007 10:56PM

For personal reasons I like the fact that thin is in. I am very very thin (metabolism, I eat like a pig) and do not look good in much. Guys don't look at me twice. And then I see fashion mags and think, hey, models are thin. It's okay. I'm not a freak.