Cathy Horyn's Guest Blogger

posted by Alex

Aug 30, 2007 7:04PM

It's interesting stuff to me, but I'm an outsider as well.

Another way of thinking about is that the fashion world is a collection of people who hold certain interests in common, and who tend to deal with things in specific ways.

In a sense, liking fashion means being plugged into that group. Outsider takes on what fashion means and how it functions can be valuable and interesting, but being interested in those outsider takes is probably different than what most people mean when they say that they're "into fashion".

And being into fashion in that traditional way is fun and interesting on its own terms.

So maybe it's a perspective that broadens things and that's interesting. But it seems like it's unlikely for that kind of perspective to replace or even to inform the mainstream perspective in any kind of a substantial way.

posted by Annmarie

Aug 30, 2007 9:10PM

I think what tends to happen is that these outsiders, through the magic of the internet, tend to become insiders pretty quickly, even without any direct contact...look at what happened when Socialite Rank closed and that other randon dude from Michigan got hundreds of socialite insider gossip in his inbox in days. So its great that its a whole new path to writing about fashion, and one thats a lot more democratic and merit-based than being Anna's third cousin's daughter...but the problem is that the second someone is recognized as an "outside" voice, theyre almost automatically shifted to the inside.

posted by andrea

Aug 30, 2007 9:38PM

I find his comments hilarious and so sad. While i love and live for fashion (came out of the womb that way, always made excuses for it, now i don't have to), i find that he IS so pedantic it is scary! What person has nothing else to do that they write a 7000 word treatise on a blog that is not his own? So sad, it seems that he has nothing else in his life. That said, i do live in nyc, and i have a completely different life than him.

posted by Ginny

Aug 30, 2007 11:06PM

It's inevitable that academia take interest in popular culture and analyze it to bits, but I couldn't get through even the first paragraph without being bored out of my mind. And the Silence of the Lambs reference is just too much! Whether it's street style or couture, fashion is a living thing. When it gets formatted into a 7000 word treatise by a Ph.D, it sucks the life and fun out of it. There are ways to analyze fashion and discuss it intelligently without locking ourselves up in an ivory tower.

On a different note, I wonder what this guy's style is like. I'd be interested in seeing a look book than a long-ass academic paper.

posted by ARN

Aug 31, 2007 3:10AM

I agree with Ginny. I couldn't even get to the better parts since I got so bored just from reading the first few paragraphs.

posted by Autre

Aug 31, 2007 4:25AM

Hi, Fashionista!

Just so some of you know: I appreciate all the comment. My goal is not to influence, Alex, but to share my thoughts, emotions, etc., on fashion - a topic a fell into by mistake, and I'm glad I did. If this makes me sad and not having a life - well, my job is just fantastic, and it allows me to pretty much make my own schedule, Andrea. As for my style, Ginny: think subtraction. Plus, I'm in my twenties, and I'll pretty much try to do different things. Why not?

Best,

posted by The Fashion Informer

Aug 31, 2007 7:32AM

I already commented on Autre's essay on Cathy's blog (sorry, Anna, but not everyone calls her "Ms. Horyn") so I'll make this brief. I think the main problem I had with Autre's disjointed diatribe, which several of you have pointed out, is that he is an academic writing for a lay (or consumer) audience. The tone and depth of detail just doesn't translate, especially in a blog format. Plus, he's not adept at making his points in a non-obtuse manner, so he does come across as didactic and pedantic (that old journalistic saw about showing, not telling, being in very short supply in his writing).

Oh, and in my 20-odd years in the magazine business, I have yet to meet a single fashion writer who came up "through the fashion closet." Fashion closets breed sittings and market editors, not writers (who tend to come from the features side). It's apples and oranges.

posted by Autre

Aug 31, 2007 9:05AM

The Fashion Informer,

As opposed to your little interviews and high-school magazine reviews? Such clarity, and pretty much nothing of worth to be retained since it contains NO thought. I do not underestimate the "lay" audience. First of all, you need to realize that there's a world outside fashion, and that your view of how things should be in fashion is ultimately only your view. And just so you know: if you find this obtuse, disjointed, etc., you, my dear, have read little in your life. Or perhaps only what suits you. Which might be deduced from the books you review on your blog. Plus, it is your right to criticize, but I would really like to read something about what you think on such topics as fashion and the times - then again, to do so, you would first have to have an idea of the times you live in. Which you clearly don't, so "obtuse" comes in handy.

The problem of insiders is, Anna, that they rarely have any clue what is going on outside fashion, and that there is a more than relevant discussion going on in circles that do not have direct access, or are in the business.

I'd rather be known as boring than "fun".

Best,

posted by Autre

Aug 31, 2007 9:19AM

I can finally see what The Informer needs or wants: her "time" argument is pretty much "I want everything to be served on a platter", i.e. time=no effort. And her blog clearly displays this.

Best to Fashionista ( I like coming here, especially for the copyists feature - a lovely move),

posted by Faran

Aug 31, 2007 9:28AM

::At this point in the discussion, Faran slams the door behind her and pulls up her sleeves::

Hey!

The thing with name calling is, it detracts from your work and your arguments, which should speak for themselves.

You both have people eagerly waiting for your next piece. You both have people who don't read your stuff, for whatever reason.

This comment thread probably isn't the place to mitigate the two extremes - especially since we enjoy both of your contributions to internet fashion immensely.

I think you should trade emails. And meet in person. You'd probably like each other.

Looking forward to your fashion week observations (about the week, not each other...)

--F

ps - Autre - seriously, take a photo of yourself in your most representative outfit and send it over, we're dying to see it!!!

posted by Autre

Aug 31, 2007 11:05AM

FARAN! and all the other sexy ladies at Fashionista...

I'm turning the other cheek. Cheeky.

Well, I talked about turning the tables in my essay and I guess name calling is the only one appropriate here. Maybe this is me being fun. All I wanted was a decent discussion, and I got name calling, so I'm returning the favor - come on, it's harmless. My academic friends are already mad that I even considered the blogosphere. But I don't care - I think it's the place to be right now. And I admire Cathy.

I might send the pic - I'll see anyway. But imagine this: black elegant pants, mirror-finish black laceups, the simplest black or white trenchcoat, and a white shirt. My uniform. I'm not fussy, I just believe in severity.

Best to all, and no hard feelings on my side, if you're ever in my town, I'll take yout to dinner... Anyway, you have my email.

posted by rollergirl

Aug 31, 2007 7:56PM

Oh! Please don't all have a punch up! Well, I haven't read Cathy's blog for a couple of weeks but I find that there is a small coterie of regulars that comment and boy, the comments are LONG! And I must say I find it off putting. But I like fashion blogs for the simple fact that non-fashion insiders can partake too. Out of the 30-odd blogs I read regularly (yes, I'm an addict), only 4 are by professionals. Style Bubble is written by a girl with a regular job and it's one of the most widely-read blogs in the blogosphere. The whole point of blogs are thay're an informal version of traditional print media so I like the fact that anyone can have a go.

posted by The Fashion Informer

Aug 31, 2007 10:32PM

Hi Faran,

Not sure you needed to intervene since I don't really think there was much name calling being done on my part (I posted only one response to Fashionista's post about Autre's essay, and made no pejorative comments about his life, personality, reading habits, etc. and he responded with a string of insults that were more hostile than enlightening). But I do appreciate your stepping in to prevent things from getting out of hand. (I also find it amusing that Autre is now praising Fashionista after making snarky comments about it - and you - several months ago on Cathy's blog, after which I noticed you stopped commenting - as Fashionista, at leasta).

Autre, I assume by now you have had a chance to read my second post on Cathy's blog in response to your essay (I actually wrote it late last night but it didn't post until early this evening), and as I said there, my intention was not to tell any other posters how to respond to her entries (or what length those posts should be), only that *I* had decided to try and keep mine short and sweet.

As for my site, if you don't like it, don't read it. There are plenty of other people who seem to enjoy it - and I certainly love writing it - but I understand it's not for everyone.

Lastly, as for my personal reading habits (which are very different than the books I review on The Fashion Informer, which is, after all, a FASHION site), I am currently re-reading some Joan Didion books I read back in high school (first The White Album and now Slouching Towards Bethlehem - she's my all-time favorite writer, with Mary Cantwell, Michael Chabon, Amy Bloom, Dale Peck and Truman Capote trailing close behind). Other recent books I've loved are The Bitch in the House (a collection of essays on contemporary womanhood) and The Female Thing: Dirt, Sex, Envy, Vulnerability by Laura Kipnis. Oh, and I'm looking forward to reading Dana Thomas' Deluxe: How Luxury Lost Its Luster next, which I may or may not review on the site. For the most part, though, the books I read for pleasure/enlightenment are not books I'd review on The Fashion Informer, as they have nothing to do with fashion.

Just wanted to reassure you that while I am not a Ph.D candidate in philosophy, I do, indeed, read books without pictures. Sometimes I can even do so without moving my lips.

And Rollergirl, I agree: Stylebubble is one of the best fashion blogs out there. I heart Susie Bubble!

posted by Autre

Sep 01, 2007 7:31AM

The Fashion Informer,

For the last time: I read everything, and will continue to read your blog for info. Don't tell me that "masturbatory manifesto" wasn't insulting. So, all I did was turn the tables a bit. To see how unnecessary some things were and are. If you're only talking about someone's style...

As for Fashionista, I meant what I said - I read the features that I like. SO, who cares, right. They critiqued me, I critiqued them.

Best,

posted by Autre

Sep 01, 2007 7:59AM

One more thing: don't put words into my posts - just checked it out, and even then I said the same thing in replying to Faran - that I like the site.

Now, it's really over.