posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 4:19PM

The difference here though is that no one is going to look at the Forever 21 dress and think that you spent the same amount of money as if you had bought the mayle dress. Oh, and the dresses really aren't all that similiar

posted by sarahchivonne

Jul 18, 2008 4:29PM

You know, even though fashionista readers like to hate on fashionista for hating on forever21, i pretty much agree with fashionista on adv in copyrights like this one.

It's one thing for people to not want to spend thousands of dollars on Vuitton and Prada and walk down the street in cheap knock offs (which doesnt take a fashionista to spot that they are knock offs), it's another thing for companies like f21 ripping off independent designers that are still working hard to get to mainstream LV and Prada status.

And this is just a blatant ripoff, who cares if it's missing the drawstring, the drawstring isn't the point. if it was my company, i'd be pissed.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 4:31PM

guest 4:19PM - the dresses are WAY similar, everything from the EXACT embroidery design to the button closures at the shoulders to the color scheme and the scalloped embroidery at the hem and the neckline!

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 4:41PM

How about Fashionista find something from F21 that other designers have ripped off.. When was this a one way street?

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 4:55PM

i actually like the shape of the forever 21 dress better--light and billowy. however, black and red look better together.

posted by hannah

Jul 18, 2008 5:21PM

Guest @ 4:41PM:... what? I'll tell you right now that most designers do NOT look to forever 21 for inspiration and to rip off their designs, considering they are mostly not even original in the first place, and if they were they probably would not have the details and quality designers look for.

Guest @ 4:19PM: yeah, no similar except for the fact the embroidery pattern is EXACTLY THE SAME.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 6:07PM

What does Mayle really lose from this? I really don't think this is anything to climb atop one's high horse over.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 6:20PM

this is insanity. fashion lovers defending forever21? there's no bloody right for them to freely rip off the ideas of whoever they like. the stupid part is that the graphic/embroidery looks EXACTLY THE SAME. it wouldn't be as ridiculous if they just did their usual thing where they recreate the general idea.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 6:56PM

Obviously what F21 is doing is wrong, but I'm really getting sick of hearing about it. Fashionista should just have a sister blog devoted entirely to F21 ripoffs since they seems to be at least a post a day about this.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 6:58PM

I actually have the mayle dress on the right and it only comes in charcoal (i.e. a really dark grey) not black.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 7:17PM

why do you only choose to drag forever 21 through the mud? what about h&m...i know it's not as blatant, but still. my point is that's how fast fashion works, and your comments don't seem to be having any negative effect on their business, aside from maybe a few people realizing they're buying a knock off.
and i'm sure plenty of fashionista readers shop there, because honestly how many people can afford the original?
they targte two totally different markets (with slight overlap) who seem to coexist just fine.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 9:07PM

I love the dress on the right, the one onf the left, same design or not, is garrish, bulky and horribly ugly.

posted by guest

Jul 18, 2008 11:48PM

@ 7:17 guest. Fashionista doesn't rag on H&M because it is harder to do so. F21 posts their clothes online, while H&M doesn't. The bloggers would have to do a little more than post a link and photo in order to show the knock-offs at H&M.

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 2:53AM

As someone who works in the "creative sphere," I find that the argument is a sartorial catch22. Because of the work I do I can't afford to buy a dress that costs over $100. Yet, at the same time, I work hard and wouldn't want my hard work to be so blatantly ripped off...Plus it's sort of like reverse Warhol. Nobody paid the Campbell's graphic designers for his use of their work (at least I don't think so)

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 3:29AM

Okay so they are not the most original line ever. but THAT IS THE POINT! They bring the trends to the mainstream market at a price AVERAGE CONSUMERS can afford. H&M, Zara, TopShop are NOOOO different. Maybe its because the idea of shopping those stores is slightly more chic. Or are you slightly frazzled by the idea that originality actually counts now, and you can't just throw on a label and be "stylish". I'm sure if Kate Moss does a line for F21 it will be loved and embraced by all including Fashionista.com. For now BUY QUALITY!leave forever21.com alone (your honestly creating MASSSIVE free advertising) print the juice we come to the site to see. Or should we spend our lunch breaks elsewhere?

posted by fay

Jul 19, 2008 7:14AM

I don't really understand rip-offs like this. Why could they not have simply used a different pattern for the embroidery? Surely it wouldn't have been that difficult for F21 to have done so, and it would have taken the dress from "copy of" to "inspired by" which makes all the difference!

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 1:37PM

It seems like I am not such a fan of Forever 21. They rip of many designers which is not reputable.

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 1:46PM

Fashionista's great but these copyright posts are getting a bit much. Fashion insiders are constantly ripping off eachother's ideas -- they go into vintage shops and find some unknown dress and `update' it. Or they dive into another designer's archives and `tweak' one of those designs. Forever 21 is a bit more blatant than others but by no means alone in the industry...

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 2:48PM

I love you guys, but I'm confused. You crucify forever and urban and the like for ripping of established and struggling to become established designers, but topshop is often caught doing this and you still worship them.

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 3:16PM

btw, for all the people NOT for defending smaller-biz independent designers, you have obviously never created any sort of artwork. forever 21 can bring trends at an affordable price all they want, but you can't simply think that they can COPY the piece entirely???

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 3:17PM

whatever, i love f21 for doing stuff like this. fashion shouldn't only be available for wealthy people (even though mayle is an indep designer i'm SURE her clothes are as we say in french, trés cher). i'm sure she's mad, but hey, you haven't made it as a designer until f21 rips off your design. but, IMO the f21 version doesn't look like hers. if money was no option i'd still buy the f21 version because it looks better.

posted by guest

Jul 19, 2008 6:30PM

I would just like to say that this column should be called "Forever 21 Ripoffs" instead of "Adventures in Copyright." Every rip-off posted is from Forever 21!

And seriously, that is the business model for Forever 21. You just know that they are going to rip-off every designer. They don't have a team of designers creating novel clothing, duh. So, for a fraction of a price, you can get the same DVF, Philip Lim, etc. design made with sub-par materials and poor craftsmanship, and if all you care about is a look that will last you one washing, more power to you for shopping at Forever 21. I just don't see the point in getting mad about Forever 21 copies. It is what it is - a fact of life.

posted by guest

Jul 20, 2008 9:38AM

guest at 4:41, it has been a one-way street since the beginning of time.

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 3:02AM

I love you guys and I'm not defending F21 here, but these posts are getting a little much. The comment threads are always the same, and it's just starting to come across as filler material on slow news days. We get it already! F21 copies shit and a lot of us don't like it! I'm not sure posting it on here helps the problem much or provides any scintillating or new material for discussion/thought, as opposed to your more thought-provoking pieces.

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 9:12AM

when my artwork 'inspired' a particular forever21 piece i was more bemused than genuinely upset. why? because forever21, like topshop,h&m,etc, has an average twoweek merchandise turnover with about 6-8pieces per location which makes for a very small window of time for the offending garment to be purchased and seen. also, given their store layout and general cluster f_ck merchandising scheme it doesn't make the same impact as the legit item being displayed in its intended, higher end setting. it would be more of a problem if another ind. designer knocked off the garment, sold it for a comparable price, and displayed it within the retail radius of the original. is it right for f21 to obvs knock off, no, but theyll continue to do it anyways because even with lawsuits they stand to make so much money from their 'designs'. sure maybe they wont knock off dvf or vera wang anymore, but thats not every designer 'option' from the beginning of time either. and really, the person that would buy the garment on the left would most likely think you were telling her that her dress was masculine when you comment that its 'mayle'

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 9:37AM

If Mayle isn't pissed I don't see what the point is of getting mad about this. All forms of art are constantly getting pilfered by other artists, that is just the way it works. Especially with such a commercially-driven art form as fashion.

There are other things to get in a snit over. It would be more interesting if Fashionista showed other designers ripping each other off (which happens just about as often as forever 21 rips designers off) or talking about the similar factory conditions between big luxury brands and forever 21.

It would probably be best for people to avoid Forever 21 for actually damaging ethical reasons, like their sweatshop conditions and company policies that effect working people, instead of hating on them just because they lifted a design off of some designer.

posted by Natalie Hormilla

Jul 21, 2008 9:49AM

guest 27, Mayle personally e-mailed us to bring the f21 dress to our attention for our archive. so i'd say they're pretty pissed.

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 10:09AM

I've commented on this before and I will again: why does NO ONE pay any attention to the fact the the reason F21 (and the like) designs are so cheap is because they use poorly paid sweatshop workers? Even if you don't care about the copyright issues, at least care about that!!! It is hard to entirely avoid clothes made under questionable conditions, but at least try! Buy quality, buy less!!

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 10:37AM

The reason that there are so many posts about F21 ripping off other people's designs is because F21's entire business model is to copy a popular designer's designs. They have no originality at all and their copying does in fact hurt the true designers, as the originals are slower to sell if there are thousands available for $19.90 at F21. So gross.

posted by bastylefilegirl

Jul 21, 2008 11:33AM

Pissed or not, the Sarah who works in her office and the other "Mayle" staff know how to get "free" press. Even though Forever 21 is copying a design places like fashionista.com help promote the designer by running post like "Adventures in Copyright" so in a round about way some ways Forever 21 helps small companies.

posted by southweststyle

Jul 21, 2008 11:54AM

maybe post the brand name of the original design and not post the name of the riper-offer in the future to avoid giving the bad guys free press?

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 12:24PM

If Mayle was actually pissed off about this they would be filing a lawsuit, not emailing tips to fashion blogs.

Of course they sure know how to drum up some good press. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 1:25PM

so if mayle is pissed, what course of action are they taking (other than sending it to a blog)? Aren't there other companies suing F21? Are they going to join in? Since it is a print design that F21 stole (and not the cut or color which isn't protected by copyright), Mayle may actually have the law on their side.

Because, if all they did was get an assistant to email this blog, it seems like they are more interested in the PR than the actual issue that someone stole their design.

And I really like Mayle clothes and probably wouldn't want someone being able to buy a copy of any I own at F21. However, I really don't like this particular dress and I actually prefer the design of the F21 one. Too bad most things at F21 are polyester.

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 3:03PM

BORING DISCUSSION. This is a fashion site and Forever 21 is not fashion. I don't care what F21 is doing, I care what actual designers are doing. Can you please stop doing F21 commercials? And Steve Madden while we're at it. Are your readers really interested in boring mall stores and their business models? Yay lawsuits against such blatant violations, but really, stop the boredom on the blog.

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 5:32PM

Yeah, but what no one's addressed is the fact that both of these dresses are UNSPEAKABLY UGLY.

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 6:41PM

Rachel Bilson says other wise!!:

http://www.gossipgirls.com/rachel-bilson/rachel-bilsons-dry-cleaning-duties-195930?profile=82737

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 8:28PM

How funny, Rachel Bilson was spotted wearing this dress just today... http://justjared.buzznet.com/

posted by fourthavenue

Jul 21, 2008 9:25PM

i was just about to post what both guests at 6:41 and 8:28 did. and i like the f21 version of it better too.

posted by fourthavenue

Jul 21, 2008 9:27PM

i meant to say the mayle one better. sorry

posted by guest

Jul 21, 2008 10:01PM

re: rachel bilson, usually love her taste but clearly the dress doesn't look any better on!

posted by xomeghanxo03

Jul 21, 2008 10:59PM

forever 21 has done this countless amounts of time! >:0

posted by guest

Jul 22, 2008 8:47AM

Oops, I posted about Rachel Bilson right after guest @ 6:41 - Sorry!

posted by guest

Jul 22, 2008 8:48AM

And I beg to differ... I think the dress is adorable.

posted by guest

Jul 22, 2008 2:17PM

What about the vintage dress that Jane Mayle probably copied her design from?

posted by guest

Jul 25, 2008 10:38AM

In the fashion industry, everything is a knock off, of a knock off, of a knock off. Rarely is anything individual or uniquely inspired.

posted by D

Jul 25, 2008 5:35PM

Who cares!? All these "high end" designers are so greedy because they charge so much money for their "great" designs. They themselves are so guilty of copying, they do it all the time, but no one questions them cuz they are "high end" and retailers consider the copying as paying homage. Why do you think designer like Richard Chai, Jonathan Saunders and the ever so tacky Thakoon *&#*&^@*& (yes it's confirmed he's also comming to Target) are breaking deals with budget retailers like Target to create "affordable fashion." No one else is buying their crap at the prices they are selling it. They are pissed that Forever 21 (and other copyists) did not approach them first to give them a cut of the profits. If anything they should be greatful that someone is paying attention to their fancy crap other than the 10 skinny rich b*tches that buy their sh*t!! Budget retailers are here to stay so get OVER it!!! Designers will have to once and for all be crative and figure out ways to justify their high prices and create stuff that cannot be CHEAPLY knocked off. I'm sorry but if you're a visual artist (designer, filmaker or what-have-you..) your product will influence others. And if this product can be easily and cheaply knocked off then my question is: Who is ripping who off!?

posted by guest

Aug 04, 2008 3:51AM

As a fashion design student, I view knockoffs as literal theft of art form. Designers work hard to create one-of-a-kind, high-quality garments, while F21 exploits poor countries and the United States' undocumented workers to make garments for mere cents.

The only problem is that the more attention Fashionista gives to F21, the more people are going to be curious about it. ("Hey, I could get that designer-inspired garment there on the cheap!") General shoppers are generally too selfish to care about exploited workers who work in poor conditions and for little pay to make their cheap knockoffs. They also usually don't care about the hard work designers do behind the scenes, either.