Would You Wear A Knock-Off?

posted by Eli

Aug 12, 2008 2:04PM

Are you really that judgemental of a friend? Thats awful.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:05PM

yes i would wear it IF i couldn't find a similar vintage piece or make something like it.

i just can't afford the expensive designer clothes. and i'm not complaining either. i love F21. they are cheap and chic.

posted by KLW

Aug 12, 2008 2:07PM

It depends on the actual item itself. As long as it's fully lined, and the zippers are good, no threads coming out, sleeves put in properly, and it really, truly fits, I will consider it. It's not like any of us are buying couture; plenty of authentic ready-to-wear is of mass-produced construction as well, and if it's as good as the inspiration, why not? And if it's a really good dress, it won't be obvious to almost anyone--I wouldn't buy something that was obviously a knockoff of a more complicated garment, or something that screwed up a distinctive pattern, a la DVF.

Never, ever will I do it with shoes and handbags--cheap leather always looks cheap, and shoes that are designed with a look in mind instead of considering fit, balance, and construction, are murder on the feet, especially with a heel as high as the Tribute pumps.

posted by bastylefilegirl

Aug 12, 2008 2:09PM

I understand both sides of the coin I love fashion, but I dont' make the kind of moolah to spend on "high fashion". I personally have one exception to my no knock off rule and that is shoes. If the shoe is ubbbbbbbber trendy like the Chloe Leather Shoe Boot and won't last until next spring then I would opt for the Forever 21 29 buck knockoff. Now as far as clothes and other items I say No. It's far easier to get "inspired" looks as you mention without buying a complete knock off as far as clothes and other accessories are concerned. As far as ethics I think that it makes everyone cringe to think that something we are buying may come from a sweatshop, but lets not just point the finger at knockoffs because some chain retailers we know and love have been caught in sweatshop scandals, as well as the ethics of many high fashion lines using animal skins which is questionable in itself!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:09PM

Though I don't condone knock off's and wouldn't buy one myself, i think that its fine for someone who likes fashion but can't afford it. I remember back in 2000 I really wanted the Balenciaga Le Dix bag but was not sure if I could commit. I almost bought a knock off by some other designer and then figured if I was going to get the knock off I may as well get the real thing. At the time the bag was $1,000. With inflation and the looming recession, I think its going to be alot harder to buy luxury items and companies like Urban, F21 and Nine West are going to make similar items more available at a more affordable price for people who love the look but can't spend the dough. I don't agree with stealing the intellectual property however every designer has ripped off another designer at some point. Fashion these days is FAR from original.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:12PM

this is america, and egalitarian fashion is awesome. not everyone can afford balenciaga while working as a blogger- in fact, acting superior because you can (or your parents support you) is just wrong.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:13PM

after countless compliments on finds from forever 21, i'm hooked. easy on the wallet. kleenex clothes. wear them one season and move on.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:13PM

"I winced. Such an irrelevant excuse and yet kept in a holster."

umm...hello have you been living under a rock. look times are hard and even if they were not people still want to wear something that is in style. not everybody can afford ysl shoes or balenciaga blazers. what do you expect people to do. buying vintage is fun, but i know plenty of people who like myself love fashion but just aren't in the top tax bracket. therefore we can't afford the real thing or the close to the real thing in vintage stores because even they can price things high. you winced ... you actually winced. please and get over it. not everybody that reads this site has the money to just go and buy expensive clothes, something that your readers have been stating in the comment section for a while now. maybe you should open your mind. not everybody that is in to fashion is rich. i am not saying go down to canal street, but forever 21 and steve madden, and even h and m sometimes. i mean come on of course i would go there on my college students budget.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:16PM

Look, the game is up. "Designer" goods are no longer worth squat, as we all know they are increasingly made in China using the same slave labour as the clothes made for F21 etc. (even more heinous, some designer goods made in Italy are made in Italy...by massively underpaid Asian immigrants in sweatshops). As for the Piet Mondrian design...that image is old enough that it no longer has a copyright, and can be used by any designer, be it couture or a "knock-off".
I was willing to pay more for "original" designer goods when I had faith they were actually made by decently paid European craftspeople. After all, isn't that how they justify those hefty price tags? Now, I would feel like a fool to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for something made in a sweatshop, no matter who designed it.
If you are going to judge your friends based on their outfits, I would say that your friends need to find someone else to hang out with. I mean, I like fashion, but do you realize there are wars going on? That the U.S. is about to spin into a recession? That there are people out there who don't have homes, food or clean water?
Get a grip.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:17PM

Like 4 said, it really depends on the construction of the garment and what it is. This is especially true for me and mid-market ready-to-wear/diffusion lines. Anyone who doesn't know that mid-market line designer brand items often are of a comparable quality to the people knocking them off obviously doesn't look past the label (which might be GLUED on). I think I made this point in regards to a grey nylon forever 21 tote and a MJ grey nylon tote debate, but there absolutely are times when a nylon tote is just a nylon tote.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:19PM

Some people just don't have the cash to fork over for an original, but still want to look chic. You simply can't hate them for that.

Sure, the copy-cat aspect of the fashion industry sucks, but it's also the nature of the business.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:20PM

WOW, I can't believe this girl is still your friend. You come off as such a judgemental snob. Get over yourself.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:20PM

I have been an avid reader of fashionista for over a year and have rearly commented, but this post made me very angry.
Forever 21 is one of the largest and most profitable stores around. You really think that no one who cares about fashion shops there? That is naive and, as much as I hate to say it because I love this website, pretentious.
It's unfourtunate that these designers are getting their specific items ripped off, but as people have said in comments before, it goes both ways. Designers get their inspiration from other clothing also.
Perhaps the top 1% can buy real designer items. Is it really fair that the rest of us are kept out of cutting edge fashion because of it. There are certainly items to be found in vintage stores, and personally, that is what makes up most of my wardrobe. But if something was made in 1988, it looks different than something made in 2008. Not everyone's look is vintage and that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to keep up with the trends in an affordable way.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:20PM

The cringe factor with knock-offs is that they are blatant copies of something original. While I would sport something clearly inspired by a designer, to wear a full-on rip off (for me) is cheesy.
However, I waiver on the moral aspect of this debate. I'm one of the many people who cannot afford designer clothes, even though I would love to. I have a problem with blouses costing in the thousands and shoes costing in the quadruple digits. Prices are obscene and if somebody feels good wearing an F21 copy, let her enjoy it.
And before posts pop up about the ethics of child labor and all that, I hope that person has checked every label in his/her wardrobe and knows for a fact that every upscale designer does not underpaid and/or child laborers.

posted by hellonheels

Aug 12, 2008 2:23PM

I think knockoffs are tacky, personally. I understand that the vast majority of people can't afford the originals, but like Kyle said, find something vintage that references the look. I don't see what's so chic about Forever 21...it's all synthetic crap.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:25PM

i've never purposefully worn a knock-off that is practically an exact replica of a higher-priced designer item. i think that it's unfair to the ACTUAL designer of the clothing. i prefer to find pieces that are unique in their own way, and might follow the same trend, but aren't someone else's ideas.

posted by Britt Aboutaleb

Aug 12, 2008 2:25PM

Why do so many readers insist on only two categories? There's more than "designer" or "designer knock-off". Get creative. Wear something original, still stylish, and within your budget. No one in our office is wearing anything designer today, but no one's wearing a rip-off of someone else's designs either. That doesn't make us pretentious, it makes us conscious and respectful of the designers we support.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:29PM

How is not being able to afford something an "irrelevant excuse"? I'd love some Balenciaga but I've got a non-profit salary and can barely make rent. Maybe after I make my first million I can spend more time worrying about protecting the creative integrity of Balenciaga.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:30PM

So many of the writers on this site have showed themselves to be elitist snobs. By acting like you are not living in the same world as most of your readers, you alienate them. Sure, hold on to your tiny elite readership and you will have tiny salaries to match. Buy some YSL platforms with THAT!

I highly doubt any of these writers are even college-educated, with the highly ignorant views that they exemplify.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:30PM

wow.

this is the ridiculous thing i have read on a blog for a long time.

the most fashionable people i know are the ones who don't have a lot to spend. what they can spend gets utilised on high street knock-offs and inspired second hand. i've never met a stylish person who spends lots of money on "the real thing" because along with their stylish outfit, they also have stylish, interesting lives. they like to socialise, to dine out, to travel places, to read and watch and do. they have a good quality of life. in short, they love to look good but they are smart enough not to spend all their money doing it.

i also hate to generalise, but i feel this may be an american thing, and evidence of how behind europe they are when it comes to style. everyone likes to have a few coveted pieces that we know will last through the seasons, but in the uk, where i am from, you are consider a vapid fool if you spent your month's wages on lagerfeld and co.'s newest bag.

on a personal note, it seems you have some sort of inferiority issue away from clothing. are you ugly? stupid? can't find a life partner? whatever, having pity upon someone because you don't think their clothes are good enough (when they've shown more creativity than yourself, in mixing it up) makes me think that you need to look into yourself.

and as for your friend, good on her. she's seen the sartorial light. may you and your other narrow-minded minions follow.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:31PM

i don't go for knock-offs, mainly because the construction and comfort is severly lacking (oh my feet!) and because usually when an item has reached the knock-off status it is because it's so highly coveted and everyone and their mother is wearing the same item, be it high-end or the F21 version and i don't want to be another face in the crowd wearing the latest trend. but i would never be so full of myself to condemn a friend for wearing an imitation - if she has found something she loves and feels good in, who are you to cut her down for it. i love your blog but you just sounded like an incredibly pretentious b**ch.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:35PM

I agree. Very pretentious of you fashionista!
"respectul of the designers". Give me a break!I do NOT think buying a knock off at Forever 21 is being disrespectful. Certainly not. It's just what a lot of people can afford and it's not having any affect on any designer.
The fashion industry is disrespectful in itself! Just look at the way models are being talked to/about. Or the way interns/employees are treated by their employers.
I'm way off topic but anyway, just wanted to give my opinion.

posted by bastylefilegirl

Aug 12, 2008 2:36PM

"it's all synthetic crap." umm many "high fashion" lines use synthetic crap like PVC ......

http://fashionista.com/2008/08/pvc_3.php

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:37PM

Britt a little defensve, you all promote countless times how you are buying designer clothes consitently, and then going on and on about about other people try to make it accessible for regular people who are struggling to have some designer looks. Its not like everyone every day is copying designers clothing all week every week. Would you judge someone if some copied a exact look out of a magazine or a runway.

And if someone was orignial but it was from F21 would you judge i am sure you would.

Are so supposed to be impressed no one is wearing designer today.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:40PM

Britt, I actually agree with Fashionista's general policy on designer knock-offs. I don't wear them, but definitely love taking elements from them--which I can do, now that I live in a big coastal city. However, I think you are failing to take into account that many people will not have a lot of access to the kinds of stores where you can find anything else. In the town where I am from (which is very wealthy, and I imagine it is harder in towns which are not), there is Saks and there is the mall, with its Forever 21. There is nothing in between. There are no vintage shops. There are no little boutiques. Sure, there is the internet, but you can't try stuff on and vintage is very hard over the internet. It just makes it so hard. So I feel like I should be a little lenient.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:41PM

Interesting (and quite pretentious for someone who writes for a blog) to be so sanctimonious about knock-offs.

What was so groundbreaking about the Mondrian dress? DVF simply translated a painting to a cotton shift. Does that mean she owns the intellectual property rights to that print? I think not.

Furthermore, you act so high-and-mighty about knock-offs, yet even fashionista staff members occasionally slip and admit to buying knock-offs. EXAMPLE:

http://fashionista.com/2007/07/post_295.php

In short, get over yourself and remember one thing: You might have an in in the fashion industry, but your job description is no different than Perez Hilton's.

posted by KLW

Aug 12, 2008 2:42PM

While I think Britt raises a good point, one thing I feel like you're forgetting is that while lots of people love fashion, not everyone works in fashion. The post isn't pretentious per se, but Fashionista is often a little sanctimonious in their judgements about what other people wear, while seeming to forget that other people have different wardrobe concerns than they do. My friends and I, who need to spend money on business casual separates and pumps for the job that pays the rent often don't have leftover cash for other things.

Speaking as someone who has actually spent some time in the Fashionista offices, your work clothes can also be your play clothes, and vice versa. Not everyone has that luxury. I am of the type that prefers to save my money for the real deal, but that doesn't make my style more or less authentic than someone else who chooses otherwise.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:43PM

There is certainly a lot of ‘gray’ area on the topic of knock offs. I think about this subject all the time. For one I work in the industry and knocking off is considered fair game. Secondly, I love to sew at home and occasionally copy a silhouette from a favorite piece in my closet. So recently I have decided to examine knock off’s on a case by case basis. Take for instance the street vendor selling multiple name brand rip off purses. Personally I don’t like bags with huge logos on the outside that everyone and their grandmother owns so I don’t feel the pressure to buy. However regardless of popularity I’m still not interested in buying a product that has been blatantly copied down to the smallest thread! It’s like a slap in the face to the design house plus it’s fueling a huge illegal industry that is hurting many companies. With this said then I must question F21, is this a civilized street vendor? It really just expands on knock off purses to clothing, shoes, accessories, ect. except instead of being in a small 4’ x 4’ box you are in a clean white walled store. F21 is the epitome of throw away knock off clothing, do you think that a true Fashionista throws away her shirt after 1 month? Probably not, she would save up for the real thing or be a trailblazer and hit up the local thrift shop. I would hope next time your stylish friend would take the more creative road and maybe then even inspire some others to do the same! 

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:44PM

I am sorry but if you are willing to buy a F21 knockoff of some hot Chloe shoe then isn't that like the definition of victimization? Instead of cultivating your own style with random pieces, you feel the need to wear imitation whatever to create the appearance of being high fashion....but there is an interesting question here--does the issue go all the way up? Is a J. Crew "Balenciaga" blazer a la f/w 07 the same as those Baker's YSL?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:47PM

Not everyone thrives off mommy and daddy's money. Some people have to actually work for their money, pay their own bills and buy their own clothes. Whatever....In the long those people will always have a better handle on life than the trust fund babies who have no idea what it's like to live in the real world. And really...clothes are clothes .Yes, the higher end stuff is mostly better quality, but not everyone cares about that. I think the bloggers here at Fashionista are just a little bit too obsessed with the name on the tag.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:50PM

Also, just because some designers use "synthetic crap" doesn't mean that it's ok...are we supposed to feel bad because people are such victims that they cannot afford Balenciaga but MUST absolutely MUST look like they are wearing it? There are ways to style yourself without resorting to gross fake or rip off stuff. Honestly I agree fashion is all about mixing and matching high/low, but if you "love" fashion then why hurt the designers and look silly by victimizing yourselves?

posted by Summer

Aug 12, 2008 2:50PM

I'll wear a knockoff if I love the design, not because it's a knockoff of a "designer" piece. That is to say, if I LOVE the look of a dress, a jacket, a print, whathaveyou, I'm going to try to find it and wear it. Since I can't afford designer right now, I would buy what I could afford (F21, H&M, etc).

However, I have little patience for people who buy knockoffs BECAUSE they are knockoffs, who want to mislead and/or claim its designer. That's just lame in my book. Labelistas. I also have no patience for people who simply must fall in line with whatever the IT item is today - a bag, a shoe, a dress - regardless of whether it's flattering or attractive, designer or knockoff. That's just money poorly spent, regardless.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:50PM

whos to say where inspiration ends and knock-off begins? everything these days gets recycled.

posted by helene

Aug 12, 2008 2:51PM

Fashion is so cyclical, eventually everything becomes a knockoff of something that has previously been made. I suppose the "fast fashion" industry of today just takes it to the next level... But you can't overlook the fact that all the major designers of today look to fashion archives for their new creations, and i am positive that we could find an Oscar de la Renta gown that is an exact replica of an old Hollywood dress!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:51PM

fighting over who has the most "original" style is like hipsters competing to see who has the "best" taste in music.

it isn't about WHAT you're wearing for God's sake--whether it's from F21 or not. it's about HOW YOU WEAR IT. style is CONFIDENCE, not a brand.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:52PM

I've accidentally purchased and worn knockoffs a lot before I educated myself about designers and the world of fashion. For instance, I bought a handbag on some random website because I loved the way it looked only to later find out I was carry a Balenciaga knockoff. It has really cheapened what I had previously thought was a great buy.

Now knowing more about designer fashion, I do have a lot more guilt about knockoff fashion, but I'm not sure that it is always going to stop me from buying/wearing it. It does make me stop and think twice though. My fashion philosophy is to wear what I like. If that happens to mean I'm wearing something knocked off, then so be it.

posted by tahl

Aug 12, 2008 2:52PM

I'll say it - I shop at F21. Often.

If a friend of MINE ever turned their nose up at my F21 outfit with the same serious "but I expected SO MUCH MORE from you! I thought you liked fashion!" attitude of this post, I'd make it a point to stop calling that person my friend. Because, really, I don't need that sort of shallow, judgmental crap in life.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:53PM

"I winced. Such an irrelevant excuse and yet kept in a holster."

Lol since when has affordability been irrelevant?

posted by kijjalyn

Aug 12, 2008 2:53PM

I think for me I love fashion without worshipping design houses. I hate the idea of being so caught up in labels that you lose personal style. I think it is less about who makes the item and more about how it looks, how it is styled, how it fits, how it flatters. The only copies that are truly gross to me are items the street vender bags that steal logos, designer names, exact prints, etc., like the Lanvin tee you showed before. But to use an inspired look from the runway and change it slightly make it affordable is kinda what fashion is all about, whether you get it from the Goodwill or Forever 21 or DIY.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:54PM

First of all, yes this post was unnecessarily pretentious and Britt's response, though understandable, is defensive. And I do think it's hypocritical to have this post situated right above a post about Zara's increasing profits due to their ability to rework and copy runway design into mass goods, which many of the Fashionista writers have themselves bought. But there is a middle ground. What does a 'knock off' really even mean anymore? As several high profile news items have suggested, Martin Margiela, Marc Jacobs and Erin Wasson have both ripped off other artists work for their own use. So I don't think it's about "respecting the designer". If you want to wear an outfit head to toe of knock-offs, go ahead, but I don't think it will look as pieced together as someone who bought a cheap imitation at Forever 21 and wore it in an interesting way with other things from their closet. At the end of the day though, people need to face up that the economy is in steep decline, a recession is in progress, while price inflation of luxury goods increases year by year. Does this mean you can't go out and buy vintage? Of course, not. I personally don't buy imitation wares because I'd rather have something cheap and original but I don't look down on others who can wear them in interesting ways. I just don't have the time/patience to do that.

posted by helene

Aug 12, 2008 2:55PM

PS, guest 27, the mondrian dress is also YSL, not DVF

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:56PM

Britt Aboutaleb and Kyle Hayes I hate to break it to you but not only does it make you sound pretentious, but full of shit as well.

posted by kijjalyn

Aug 12, 2008 2:57PM

Also, I don't think that people who wear knockoffs are trying to fool anyone, (if they are, that is sad). They went into a store and bought a shoe or a purse or whatever that they though was cute and wore the heck out of it. Buying a fake bag and lying to everyone about who made it is dishonest, but buying an inspired bag and being upfront about its cheapness and even who it copied, not so much.

PS. I have the Baker's Tributes and they do not look or feel cheap, The most comfortable platforms I own.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:57PM

A very wise man once said "Lighten up.....it's just fashion!"

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:57PM

The thing is, I wouldn't ever buy anything because it's a knock-off, but if I liked an item on its own merits (and not because I want people to think it's something else) I have no problem buying it. There are so many other things to think about before I'd worry about the creative provenance of a $20 sundress.

posted by bastylefilegirl

Aug 12, 2008 2:58PM

"posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:44PM said
"Is a J. Crew "Balenciaga" blazer a la f/w 07 the same as those Baker's YSL?"

I think that depends on who you ask, I feel that some people are personally attacking certain companies , forever 21, bakers, steve madden, but forgetting that the Gaps, J Crews, Banana Republics of the world are also doing knockoff-esque looks like the blazer you mention. And yes they may be crafted better, the fabric of a higher quality but where was it made, and why is it better than any other knockoff because the name is familiar and acceptable?

P.S. I got the hot chloe knockoffs because there was no way I was paying 300 + on sale for a shoe that I was only going to wear for not even one season.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:58PM

I'm probably just reiterating what others have said, but

a. YSL ripped off Mondrian to begin with
b. it's pretty difficult to find exactly what you are looking for when shipping for vintage. I don't ship at vintage stores to find an exact item/a cheaper version of a designer item, I shop at vintage stores in oreder to search adn discover.
c. "Designer" duds are expensive/overpriced/have their own shady issues with labor policies.

put a (pricey, I'm sure) sock in it, Fashionista

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:59PM

It's hard to take you seriously when you also post DIY projects for knock-off luxury items, a la prada earrings, drip shoes etc.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 2:59PM

Clothes are clothes....are you on the right blog #31??

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:00PM

I'm pretty sure Zara does almost the exact same thing, just at a higher price point. And didn't you praise them in the post just before this....

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:00PM

I am not a trust fund baby just someone that loves fashion not clothes. The reason I save and budget for a few amazing pieces of clothes a season is because I love the creative and the thought process that goes into producing that item. I love that these beautiful garments are meant to say something about that particular designer at that particular moment. That this collection is a reaction to something in the world around them, a mood, a moment, or simply a thought. I wear what I wear because I connected with the designer and his or her thought process and loved loved loved what they did. The whole things about fakes is that it steals and it becomes about the status of the item not like the creator of the original and his "story."

I agree with the author of this post if you like something use it as inspiration to get that look at your price point don't go and buy fakes and at least if you are buy the nasty ones on Canal Street and laugh it off.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:00PM

Why were you allowed to post this, Kyle?

You know what I realized? People who try to attain a certain level in the fashion industry feel that they must buy or promote the really expensive/brand name items because that is what they feel is expected of them. But when individuals actually get to that higher level in fashion, they actually try to promote/buy the unknown/inexpensive brand (including the pricey things). And I feel that the people here at fashionista.com are trying so hard to get to that higher level that you guys are not actually setting trends or being innoative...you guys follow the status-quo of the fashion industry (which comes off very pretentious to the people who are actually invovled in higher fashion).

Trust me. As long as its a good knock-off, no one gives a damn.

That is my two cents.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:01PM

Did anyone stop to think that Fashionista is, above anything else, an effort in journalism?

Did Kyle's post piss you off, cause you to forward the article to 3 of your closest friends, or IM someone at work to vent about how Fashionista is on its way out?

Mission accomplished, Kyle.

Readership is up.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:01PM

These interns (I'm assuming they're from FIT) need to be let go. These posts are getting seriously ridiculous.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:02PM

Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. The post comes off as bitchy and judgemental, even if it wasn't the intent.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:04PM

I have been a long time reader of this site, and will continue, but this post also made me quite angry.

You get on your high horses about the ethics of knock offs and the people who wear them, while actively judging your own FRIEND for exercising her right to consumer freedom. What about the ethics of judging people based on their clothing choices? Don't you find ANYTHING wrong with that?

There are bigger things to worry about in this world, and while yes, you are fortunate to work in the fashion industry and have access to all of these wonderful outlets of fashion, 95% of the population does not. This does not make them less than you, or anyone who is willing to spend thousands on a designer item. Designers themselves are knocking off each other, or RANDOM PEOPLE ON THE STREET (who *gasp* could be wearing knockoffs!) whom they may feel inspired by. How many times can one reinvent a shoe? It's all recycled in some way or another.

Get creative? Why don't you get up and look outside of the elitist fashion box you have limited yourself to. There is a whole big would out there, of people being creative in all facets, without judging their own friends for their fashion choices.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:04PM

I agree with Guest 26. As a person who lives in a "small town" it's hard to get access to high end stores, fashions, etc. Obviously we're *lucky* enough to have sources like Fashionista, WWD, etc, to lead us in the way we should go (...), but the options aren't always available.

And then there's the financial side of it. I'm NOT going to go buy a $1200 pair of shoes when I'm having to pay the next bill, the next tuition fee, the next anything and everything. It doesn't make sense for the average person to spend that much money on something that might not even be wearable the next season. Which is the reason why "cheaper" stores like Forever 21 are so successful. They're providing something to the public that high-end designers can't/won't provide.

Whether you like it or not, whatever the circumstances or arguments are, that's just the way it is.

P.s. My love for Fashionista has lessened just a little after the pure pretentiousness of this post. (And yes I know everyone is using that word, but that’s the best way to describe it)

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:05PM

It's a shame every post on this question has to deteriorate into name calling and accusations of living off of daddy's money. I think its really unfair and very presumptuous.

It could be an interesting conversation about art and ownership. But it isn't. Sad.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:07PM

It seems strange that Fashionista is supposedly so against the idea of knock offs, yet they have posted do-it-yourself posts on many occasions. The writer of these posts will provide instructions which will illustrate how the reader can recreate designer clothing/accessories at home without the designer price tag. Sure Fashionista is not selling the finished product in massive quantities in order to make money. However, they are stealing the designer's idea, simply so that they can do what the customers of Forever 21 are doing - saving a buck.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:09PM

I also think it worth noting that knock-offs are items that have been heavily promoted in fashion magazines and media, inciting desire for these fashions and "must have" thoughts. Most people, myself included, cannot afford the originals but the advertising and promotion of these designer clothes and styles is quite successful. We want these clothes and styles, even if we cannot afford them and I'm sorry, but expecting people to not buy them because they are knock-offs is ridiculous. It is not like the designers are losing money because I bought a copy, I would never have bought the original in the fist place because I could never afford it. Why am I not entitled to look chic in current styles? As for being creative, I do think that is best (and more fun!), but as most people I know live hectic and busy lives trying to make a living, having something stylish to quickly throw on is important. It just seems you folks at Fashionista are living in a holier-than-thou bubble.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:10PM

I think a big problem is how much knock-offs hurt the industry. While I think the principle is wrong, and am always wary of buying blatantly fake things (because then I look stupid) I often wonder how much a huge brand, like say Louis Vuitton gets hurt through knockoffs. People who buy knock-offs probably do so because they can't afford the real deal.

I personally find it a bit tacky to buy direct knockoffs, but that's because I prefer to wear things based on the way, not because they are recognizable. I will buy things that are "inspired," but I suppose if a knock-off looks good, I would invest in one, as long as it's cheap.

posted by bastylefilegirl

Aug 12, 2008 3:13PM

I swear this is my last post I promise....I have no problem with the post sounding "pretntionous" or "bitchy" as some commenters say. What I do have a problem with is that it seems as if sometimes the site "picks on" certain companies. I agree with Guest 41 who finds it as I do funny that this post is above a post about Zara being inspired by runway. Is the reason that Zara, Reiss ( who had a Herve Leger "inspired" skirt and dress in stores now) and Topshop ( although you occasionally address them,but in a much lighter tone) not attacked because the pricepoint is higher and therefore deemed above the "knock off" level? I think that may be what is upsetting some readers that this argument seems unbalanced and attack like.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:13PM

59 --

This could have been a civil discussion about the subject, had Kyle not "WINCED" when his friend revealed the shoes are knockoffs. The general tone of the post is judgmental, and not very open to other trains of thought.

An intelligent debate is rarely formed after such a negative opening statement.

posted by kijjalyn

Aug 12, 2008 3:17PM

Is it possible for us as readers and commenters to leave a thoughtful and respectful post voicing our opinions without name-calling, insulting or getting unecessarily angry? This is not the first time or the last time the topic will come up on this blog, so can we have a mature discussion and disagree without being mean to the bloggers or each other?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:18PM

excellent point commenter #45!

Kyle, if knock-offs didn't exist, how would you stay so high and mighty on that horse of yours?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:20PM

ugh, SHUT UP. christ almighty.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:21PM

Now some people are throwing around the idea that Fashionista doesn't want you to wear cheap, non-designer clothes. I don't think anyone said anything about price tag having anything to do with looking your best. The idea behind the post was don't wear items that are blatant copies, not don't wear cheap, chic clothing. Not EVERY piece at F21 is a copy (thus feel free to wear them), just as not every designer piece is original (ala the post about Bliss). I think the truth behind the argument lies in the ability to educate yourself on the industry and trends and to support originality in yourself and in design.

So go out and buy the most affordable, best looking clothing you can find, just make sure the designer didn't intend for it to be something else. I think everyone at Fashionista would support you in that.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:24PM

Fashionista, is just a hyprocrite they feel that they can judge everyone else including there friends about what they wear and buy it from, and the go ahead and do the same thing when its good enough for them.

Do you really feel so self important that you work on this fashion blog. You guys are just so into yourself and only care about what the label says.

While there are true people who love fashion, and can not get a break. Maybe its people like u who have made me dillusioned and really to leave this industry for good

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:27PM

I always wear knock-offs, and do so knowingly. I understand the issue of intellectual property and ripping off original designs, but I cannot by any stretch afford designer clothing. Forever 21 is, in fact, almost too expensive for me. I do a fair amount of inspiration and approximation as well, but sometimes I just go straight for the direct copy.

I don't necessarily believe that design should be only for the very rich, and as long as prices are inflated beyond anything even remotely affordable I will be buying knockoffs. I specifically went to F21 to buy a pair of Chloe knock-off sunglasses (themselves already knock-offs of a previous designer) because I knew they'd be there and I wanted them. If I could afford the real designer stuff, though, I would buy it.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:30PM

What is ironic is that luxury fashion emerged as a model for others to copy. The court of Louix XIV hired French tailors to create small doll-like clothes in the latest styles "a la francaise" and send them all over Europe for tailors to recreate for their clients.
Fashion is fashion, and certainly not Art. It is meant to be copied by the masses, so stop freaking out that your friend wanted to wear shoes she didn't want to spend $760 on.

posted by Natalie Hormilla

Aug 12, 2008 3:31PM

Gold star for #68!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:36PM

In one day you state that you support and patronize Zara, and then condemn friends who shop at forever 21? you guys have your heads waaayyy up there....

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:37PM

"I have been an avid reader of fashionista for over a year and have rearly commented, but this post made me very angry."

Ditto.
Kyle, you are pathetic and snobby. I'm surprised your friends tolerate you.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:40PM

I tried on the Bakers Tribute knock offs, and couldnt bring myself to buy them, mostly out of fear of breaking an ankle walking in them, but they are on sale for those who are brave enough to try!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:42PM

yikes! people are PISSED.

I have to say, I just buy what I like.. and if something costs the same as my rent, chances are it's going to deter me from buying it.

I stopped shopping at f21 becasue it always falls apart after one wash, but half the time I compliment a friend on a cute shirt/dress/shorts, it's from f21.

Additionally, everyone has time to hunt for the vintage version of something EVERY TIME they can't afford designer clothing.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:46PM

I think fashionista posts these posts to get a rise out of people.... There's no groundbreaking idea here. People will always wear fakes, other will hate them. Fashion will survive.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:50PM

re: the mondrian dress: when i saw it, i thought 'mondrian', not 'YSL archive' or 'DVF' or whatever. and mondrian, my friend, is an ARTIST, something so much higher and greater than any fashion designer could be, and if you're going to accuse f21 of ripping off MONDRIAN, why wouldn't you just accuse dolce for ripping off pollock? it's not exactly like f21 made the dress with 'YSL' emblazoned across it. and if somebody saw that dress and their first reaction was 'ew, YSL rip off' and NOT 'oh, cool mondrian print on a dress,' i'd be disgusted enough that talking to that person would be out of the question.

that being said, i don't shop at F21, and i love luxury goods. but PLEASE. if you're going to do a "would you wear a knock-off" post, can you PLEASE use a RELEVANT example, like topshop's blatant rip-off of balenciaga, prada, and luella (who, by the way, you guys seem to love so much), instead of dragging in a groundbreaking artist from the 20th century? seeing mondrian and YSL together makes me want to vomit and die, and feel sorry for every fashionista who thinks they're partaking in "art."

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:51PM

I sat here and read through (as of now) 76 comments. I agree and disagree, as we all have our own opinions.

There are some of you that said that knock-offs have a very grey line and I completely agree. If you are carrying a blatant knock-off of something where it's pattern for pattern, color for color and basically down to all the specs of the item: that's where I believe the fine line is definitely in the "DO NOT DO" area. Not only are you stripping designers of their hardwork and artistic rights, but you're completely undermining their work. For example, if you're a teacher and one day a machine (or a college student t.a.) just came in and did your lessons word for word and was paid not even 10% of what you make, wouldn't you feel undermined? Almost like what you do for a living is constituted as if it was nothing? Do you maybe think that's how some of these designers feel? And I can hear the other side now saying "Those designers/companies make enough, so it doesn't even make a dent." True. But if you feel that knock-offs are okay, what about the smaller designers? Does your heart go out to them? Do you feel like it's unfair? Isn't that being a hypocrite?
Companies like Forever 21, H&M, Zara aren't the only ones copying each other. EVERYONE DOES IT. It's just the scale of how you do it. Inspirations (in another word, "I really like that, let's make something LIKE it.), are more socially acceptable. You're not completely undermining artistic minds in that case.
In other words, I completely agree with comment #62.

The next and last thing I'll say is going to get people to call me a bitch/pretentious/spoiled/etc...
You come to this site to cause you either love fashion, want to know more about fashion, or are fashion conscious. (hence the name of this site, FASHIONISTA!) In that case, if you're the girl next to me on the subway carrying the horrible Marc Jacobs knockoff and reading this site, you might want to re-consider what fashion is and means to you. Fashion is vastly used an expression of who you are. If you don't care about fashion and about what you make as a statement with your clothing, you're on the wrong site. There's a huge difference between the girl that just wears jeans and t's and the girl who wears the same thing but adds something unique to it.

Knockoffs are inevitable. Some are more judgmental than others, others don't care, others don't know.

And lastly, I agree with Natalie. #68 does some kind of prize.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:55PM

I don't know who is worse, Kyle for his ignorance or Britt for sounding like an idiot. I'm sure neither of you have a garment or accessory in your closet that was not influenced/inspired/KNOCKED OFF another designer.

Good job alienating your readers. Are the people running this site listening?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:55PM

if you're going to invite debate Fashionista, be prepared for the heat. be a little opened minded and respect that your readership comes from such a wide range. from teenagers who know all too well the pains of fitting in with their clothes, to the few who can afford the items you post daily about.

it's those smug looks that alienate and depress those of us who just can't break the gilded ceiling of elite fashion.

i'm all for encouraging personal style, which often is better than anything that comes down a runway. but at the same time, can you blame those of us who shop stores like forever 21 and still have reality to come home too? i think most people who shop f21 aren't die hard fashionistas but regular people who see something they like and better, can afford it. and hopefully like fashion more and more so they can learn about designers and their products. so one day, they don't have to settle.

till then, we do what we have to do and hopefully look good trying.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 3:57PM

p.s. if you saved that desinger-spending-money and put it into a ROTH IRA, you'd have millions of dollars when you retired.

WHAT?! WHAT!?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:00PM

What many people are missing is the difference between fashion and style. Fashion is what you buy and style is what you innately have. Hello, the blog is called fashion ista. Obviously, it's mostly about the goods. Likewise, it's a bit tacky and not-so-stylish to wear cheapy knock off designer goods and call it 'fashion'. It's not - it's a knock off. Totally agree with Kyle on this one. You can't knowingly wear those things and feel good about yourself... you're wearing a stolen shoe.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:05PM

For Guest 68,
How are we supposed to make sure that the designer didn't intend for it so be something else? Contact them personally with a questionnaire? Run around the store in a frenzy asking anyone with ears if the piece is a knock-off? Google it? Check Fashionista.com? My shopping trips aren't intended to be research projects.

If I like it and can afford it, I buy it, I wear it. It's just that simple.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:08PM

That is very pretentious! Not everybody makes enough to afford Prada, Balenciaga, or even ebay! If a person sees something and likes it then that's their business. Why spend the money on the original? This is a very negative post. Fashionista has become very arrogant and shallow.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:09PM

As concerning Fashion/Style:
"it isn't about WHAT you're wearing for God's sake--whether it's from F21 or not. it's about HOW YOU WEAR IT. style is CONFIDENCE, not a brand." (36)

As concerning this post:
"Britt Aboutaleb and Kyle Hayes I hate to break it to you but not only does it make you sound pretentious, but full of shit as well." (43)

As concerning knock-offs/F21:
I don't come from money- I own several high-end designer and mid-range designer clothes/bags/shoes that I have invested in and were usually bought on sale.

I also own one knock off handbag and have bought some for friends while in China. They're fun & cheap- kinda like going to a dive bar!
For the most part I don't like buying direct copies of items (esp shoes) not because I think wearing knockoffs is tacky, but because often times they are total crap in terms of construction and material. The knock-offs I have bought are either dirt cheap joke items (ie. ghetto gold) or well-made but still dirt cheap (it is china after all) some are stolen items from production facilities...so real but still illegal. Marc Jacobs might frown upon such purchases but he's still in Ibiza with Kate Moss and I saw his gigantic apartment in Paris so I have a hard time mustering up much sympathy for his & LVMH's intellectual property rights, plus I think I've more than compensated for my subversion by buying REAL MJ items.

I do like shopping as F21- good jewellery and I've found some really cute dresses and tops there. These have not been direct copies of designer items. I don't think shopping at F21 automatically discredits any style points one might have accumulated- nor does wearing a knock-off, just as wearing head to toe designer doesn't make you stylish.

It's not who you are wearing but what you do with what you have that counts.

posted by etoilee8

Aug 12, 2008 4:11PM

Whoa fast fashion cowgirls. I think 90% of you are totally missing the point of this post. Fashionista isn't saying you have to buy only designer and nothing but designer. But when did we start living in a world where everyone has to ride a trend for two minutes and throw it away? Ladies, it is soooooo much better to save for a couple of nice/pricey items which you love rather than have a closet full of disposable f21 pieces that you'll be sick of after two weeks. And let's not even get started on the ethics of it all. We complain about the state of our environment but do none of you think for a second that buying fast fashion constantly, doesn't contribute to this? Use it and throw it away, such a selfish attitude. Instead of buying a new hand bag every six months, why not save for an amazing handbag that you're gonna love for four years (and sell on eBay when you stop loving it)? Instead of buying five new f21 tops. . . save and buy something nice online that you're gonna wanna wear for three years. I am not wealthy at all and my parents don't give me hand outs. But I hate knock offs and I hate cheap. . . f21 stinks of cheapness. There are very few of my friends who can pull their clothing off, clearly I'm not one of them. I just look like a girl in a cheap dress. Not the look I'm going for.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:16PM

Wow guest 83, why don't u get off your high horse. Then again i bet you are not the ones paying for these designer clothes. Style is about not looking like everyone else and does not matter where you got it from. Who cares where you got it its not stolen. How come you do not judge this site when they do there DIY's which i am sure you do as well.

I think its funny i was reading something Blake Lively said last year how before she got on GG and she would get cute stuff from F21 and get complimented by press and as soon as she said where its from they turned there back, to the point she began to lie.

Who cares wheres its from if it looks good it looks goos.

And you point being anyone who can not spend atleast a 1k on outfit is not stylish, because when can not afford to buy designer all the time, or even vintage which is expensive as well.
I will sleep fine tonight knockoff or not

posted by Natalie Hormilla

Aug 12, 2008 4:16PM

Guys - believe me, we're loving the debate, but if you're going to post several times as a different "guest" then please just take the extra minute to create a sign-in name. Thanks.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:16PM

comment 79

smaller designers don't get knocked off likw Chloe/Dior/YSL do- what happens to them? They go to interviews at big companies like Aritzia or Topshop toting their portfolios and those big companies decide if they can rip off their designs instead of having to pay these struggling artists for their work. No one says anything because these designers don't have the platform LVMH & Gucci do. Does that make you shop less at Topshop or Aritzia? I don't think so.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:16PM

Thanks #83...finally someone else who agrees. all the talk of pretentiousness and "high and mighty"--seems a lot like guilt on behalf of the f21 crowd...I can afford this stuff but many friends cannot...one friend who cannot has more style than I ever will, but she never wears knockoffs, just nice stylish stuff from no name places--exhibit a: vintage fur, velvet leggings, random boots, ribbon necklace a la Lanvin that she made herself. DIY is different--sure you may be imitating but not for profit and sometimes it's not a coveted item to convey status...those YSL Bakers, though, are obviously YSL inspired to anyone that knows/follows fashion....

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:19PM

Recently i found out that over the past 5 years I spent $70K at a small designer boutique that I love - and that doesnt go back the 5 years before when they didnt have a computer system. F21 knocked off one of their summer pieces and i have to say it was sorta cute. I wouldnt buy it, but it was cute. The sad thing is that it was an original design, not a rip off of a painting but actual embroidery etc. And I still shop at f21 - I but their necklaces and bracelets and yes teh bracelts sometimes do break after a few days but many times people think that its a KJL piece or a cool prada or marni necklace when really it was omething simple and chich for $5.70. At teh end of the day f21 is offering something to people who can't afford it - as are top shop and H&M. And I have to say stuff from top shop, H&M and zara arent made any better.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:22PM

Is it just me or did anyone else forget the Mondrian dresses of the 60's and 70's? The go-go dresses?

My mother and my aunt always speak fondly of them from when they were teens, and I'm pretty sure that the dresses were not designer because they didn't grow up rich. So who is copying who??

posted by marc lover

Aug 12, 2008 4:22PM

i'm sorry, but i don't think the baker's version of the tribute sandals are knock offs. that's a pretty basic sandal - it's not like it has a freaking logo on it anywhere. i have them in tan and i love them and don't care who people think they're by! no one i know even knows anything about ysl or the tribute sandal. they just think they're cute!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:25PM

Two points:

1) Listen, I respect art. And I agree, there's something absurd about F21 copying something like the Mondrian dress in such a literal way. It reminds me of grade school, when kids would trace pictures from magazines -- what's the point, really? The original is better (though personally, i don't love the Mondrian, even though normally I'm into mod). But that's just it -- the original is better. Why is it somehow immoral or unethical to wear an inferior version of a designer product? Anyone who recognized the F21 version as a knock off of the YSL would also be able to spot it as a knock off instantly, because they're going to know something about fabric, cut, and craftsmanship. And people who don't aren't going to care, because they don't care about the YSL to begin with. So it's a victimless crime -- your friend couldn't afford the YSL (so YSL didn't lose a customer), and anyone who could afford the YSL is going to look down on the knock-off (so you don't really even get brand dilution, since YSL is selling luxury and craftsmanship, and the F21 dress offers neither).

Personally, I love F21, H&M, Zara... but not for literal knock offs because they look cheap to me. But it's not immoral to buy the knock offs. It's just not fashionable.

2) As others have said, I'm confused when you say your friend offered no explanation for wearing the knock off. She couldn't afford the original. This is not just a reason for buying a knock off -- it's THE reason knock offs exist. Because of all the aforementioned issues with craftsmanship, knock offs are obviously targeted at a demographic that can't afford designer. I'm fine with you guys taking a principled stance on knock offs (though I think your argument is flawed, see #1), but any conversation about knock offs must begin with recognition of the fact that the luxury market creates demand for knock offs specifically because it is a luxury market. Basic economics, my friends.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:28PM

I've been struggling with whether to jump ship from this site for some time. the pretentious tone and hypocritical attitude toward knock-offs have been creeping me out. like a lot of readers, this one was just too much. i mean, even your INTERNS cop an attitude!

based on the reader responses, a common theme seems to be emerging: we don't want to be party to your creepy and judgmental assessment of your friends. (does she know you posted this??) or your creepy and judgmental assessment of people who patronize f21 or any other low-price-point store.

i personally don't buy knock offs but i respect the perogative of others to assemble their outfits as they see fit. i find that assembly process -- and the end result -- interesting. and i thank god that everyone doesn't dress (or shop) just like me...

maybe you should consider reserving the superiority complex for those who actually have contributed to, and helped shape, the face of modern fashion, whether that's sidewalk sartorialists or ms. wintour herself...

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:28PM

honestly - whether YSL or f21, these platforms make girls look like cheap hookers.

i've read this blog since the day it went live and it's just turning into: a) a silly rant of college kids who don't really know too much about anything; b) a flip book for magazine editorials that fashionista did not produce; c) a listing for bad internships/positions at places like showroom seven

what a shame...

posted by fauvism3

Aug 12, 2008 4:31PM

#93--Kyle is a student at FIT as fashionista has said....but who are you to presume his income, his parent's jobs, and whether they support him or not? My parents pay tuition for me but do not buy my clothes, so I have a job and I save and yes I have some nice designer stuff. But I think it's laughable that you are trying to determine someone's life story...who knows??? maybe you are right about kyle, maybe not...but don't judge based on one blog post. props to kyle for generating such a discussion. I am pretty sure this is Fashionista's intent--as someone else said they are journalists, this is their job. And from the discussion, they are doing a pretty good job.

Natalie--been meaning to make an account for a looong time, sorry about posting so much, am sure others did too.

posted by katfancy

Aug 12, 2008 4:32PM

absolutely, not all of us have the luxury of being so snobby. i like fashion and just because i dont make the kind of money to afford it, or get samples sent for free does not mean i should have been fashionably inferior.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:32PM

I have a huge issue with alot of these comments here.

First off, to one of the comments, people who write blogs ARE college educated, like myself, in English Literature and an upcoming Fashion Communications Degree.

Second, we do not all thrive off of mommy and daddy's money (to another comment: 31). I go to school 18 hours a week, work two part time jobs (totalling 40 hours a week), intern one day a week and am the fashion and lifestyle editor for my school paper. I too, have to buy everything (yes, everything) on my own. And no, it's not because I am all "grown up" (21, thank you very much), but I have been doing so since I entered highschool. (also-31 blogger, if you think you've had enoughof the bloggers on Fashionista, stop reading it. You're bringing some serious negativity into this space).

Ibelieve in theintegrity of a designer and the hard work, time, and effort that goes not only into designs, put the creation and formation of clothing and ideas.

I believe wholeheartedly in quality and not quantity. I own quite a few designer goods, but I have worked hard for them. If I really want a designer piece, I'll work for the money, save up, and then buy it. And if I don't want it by the time I have saved up enough cash? Then I must not have wanted it bad enough.

Counting on cheap retail stores to supply knock-off designer pieces is ridiculous. How about specialty/boutique/vintage/thrift stores? And, if you don't have any near your home, what about a retail store like The Gap? They have their own creative direction team that is unique on it's own. And what about Traget? Loads of high-end designers are created low-prices lines so people CAN afford it.

And, now that I'm at it, in relation to the piece by Kyle, when you friend mentioned that nobody would know the difference between the designer piece and a F21 label? I think that's a bloody lie. Just take into consideration things like cut, fit, fabric, etc.

You can't tell me you can't spot a fake LV bag a mile away.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:34PM

@ guest 27.

LOL Perez Hilton? Ouch!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:38PM

@ Guest 84:

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and take your question as sarcasm. Of course not every shopping trip will be a research project. Surely you are not twisting my words around that much. I will say this: Fashionista is a fashion blog. It is a blog for those interested in fashion. Fashion trends. Designers. Models. Fashion magazines. Etc. Etc. With that said, the general population of readers (not all, mind you, but most) will be familiar with the latest trends in the industry (not necessarily by reading Fashionista.com, but through exposure through a variety of mediums (magazines, advertisement, runway coverage, etc etc). Knock-offs are generally produced as copies of extremely popular items (not all, mind you!) and thus it seems that one might easily be conscious of their wardrobe choices being that they already enjoy "researching" fashion by doing what they love (looking at magazines, admiring models, commenting on blogs, whatever pleases you most). Certainly not everyone is perfect 100% of the time. Maybe that MJ coat I bought last week was a knock-off of something at some point and I didn't know it. The point is, if you are mindful of knock-offs most of the time and do your best not to perpetuate bad business then life is good. So please, don't turn your shopping trips into retail insanity on my account. The point is, this debate is concerned with the ethics involved in designer knock-offs and what that says about someone who knowingly participates in this extremely judgmental industry. I think it's awesome if you can afford something and you love it, you wear it. But just don't be naive enough to think that a blog which concerns itself with the fashion industry might have a different opinion.

xoxo Guest 68

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:45PM

Sorry, YSL, not DVF.

Here's a tricky dilemma. Richard Chai for Target: He knocked-off his OWN design for the capsule collection. Should we not buy it because it isn't the exact original design? Hmmm....

-guest 27

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:46PM

It's hard to engage in meaningful discussion when the original post is full of so much attitude and judgments. Of course, people will get defensive.
Nonetheless, I think what this post shows how Fashionista itself isn't sure of what its identity is. Zara has tons of knock-offs--I know because I shop there all the time. You praise Zara and then just above the post knock knock-offs. What the heck? You say that Topshop doesn't make appearances in the Adventures in Copyright section because they produce inspirations. Two days later, I imagine after being bombarded with emails stating otherwise, you really stick it to Topshop with one post after another about their copied pieces. It seems the readers are finally catching on. I also don't understand why you throw out these obviously complicated questions, let the readers throw their sometimes very well constructed criticisms or observations around, and then never return to the topic. There is no engagement or rebuttal, but maybe just ad revenues?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:47PM

Haha! My biggest problem is the combo of the sandals with the dress!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:52PM

HAHAHA guest 105, that may be the best argument yet!

-27

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:53PM

god you sound like the biggest bitch ever. i really hope your "friend" doesn't read this.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:57PM

#88, you missed my point (referring to #83). You can be more stylish by wearing an outfit you made yourself, with vintage pieces or cute TopShop/F21/Zara items (a la guest #91). I don't understand your 'I bet you do not pay for it' comment because I do... so it's a rather moot point. But I will not purchase an item I know was stolen and then mass produced. That's disgusting.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:59PM

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financial/2007/09/24/070924ta_talk_surowiecki

posted by etoilee8

Aug 12, 2008 4:59PM

Guest 100 took the words right out of my mouth in a highly articulate manner. Well said. (Coming from one girl who works hard for the money and buys nice merchandise to another. When I was in college, ages ago I worked three jobs at once. And still bought my odd Marc Jacobs purchase).

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 4:59PM

I do not believe in wearing knock-offs. Like a few of the commenters have stated it is tacky to wear a completely knocked off item. Designers work just as hard as the rest of us to design for houses like YSL and Balenciaga; to have Bakers rip off a shoe and produce a cheap carbon copy. Tacky!

I prefer to work hard and save the money and buy the originals. Lets face it, I'm not a Hearst and my mother is not Ms. Wintour. Im far from rich but not poor either! Hard working middle-class struggling fashion stylist here. I have several designer goods that I have worked hard to obtain; no freebies for me. That's what makes those pieces that much more special because I worked hard to get those new Gucci lace-ups.

With that said would I wear a Knock of, absolutely not!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:00PM

i agree with you. i would never wear a knockoff. haters 2 the left!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:00PM

highschool?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:00PM

Wow you are a terrible friend

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:04PM

I buy and wear whatever I think is cute...if it's a knockoff..so be it.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:06PM

Guest 27: of course not. He's not ripping anyone off of that design. He created it, only in two seperate ways (for two different price points)himself. The design, whether at Target or in boutique still belong to him.

-Guest 100

posted by coffeeshoplove

Aug 12, 2008 5:12PM

I mean, I don't intentionally buy knock offs (I don't think I've unintentionally bought a knock off either, but who knows), but it is laughable to suggest that you just skip on down to your hip little vintage shop, like it will be cheaper or something. I could skip on over to Uptown and shop some cute vintage places, but hey guess what! For the price, I might as well buy the original.

I agree with the commenter who said that maybe it wasn't solely the message that got the reader's hackles up, but the tone. I for one don't like any of Mr. Hayes posts because he comes off as trying too hard or pretentious (give me some brett or jazzi, pls!), so I kind of dismissed this. Maybe other people taking this too much to heart should do the same.

PS obvious knock offs are hella tacky and make you look cheap. Not so obvious knock offs...meh, if no one you will be around will know the difference, who the hell cares?

posted by FashionIntelligentsia

Aug 12, 2008 5:14PM

Dear Kyle,
One positive thing I can say about this post is that you have opened up a great discourse.

Please read Deluxe: How Luxury Lost It's Luster, and your elitist bubble will surely burst. In all honesty, that book destroys all our notions of what "designer" and "luxury" really is. What an eye opener for me and my Stella McCartney raffia sandals that fell apart in a month.

In addition, nothing is original nor true, please refer to Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation for further theory on that.

Best wishes,
Fashion Intelligentsia

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:32PM

I rather spend my money on a good fitting pair of designer jeans, a great bag( dare I say gucci),cool shades and shoes. I do shop at forever 21, for basics. Cute summer dresses and shirts. I usually get my clothing at HM. Im in college and cant afford to buy a herve leger dress to go out or YSL platforms. I dont try to live outside my means, i buy what i can afford. If i really want a bag, i'll save a few checks, skip a few lunches. I would never wear a knock off on purpose, have i been fooled by f21? absolutely. But just how real does your knock off look when you are standing infront of someone with the real one? Not so much. As i do agree with most of the post today, i find it hard to believe that a true fashionista would purposely wear a fake. love the debate today. keep it going!
But i agree this post was wayyy too snobby..

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:32PM

Forget fashion and whatever discussion about knock-offs. Your friendship is apparently worth much less. Nice job on that one!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:51PM

knock-off's are a big no-no; I dont care if my friend, grandma or a total stranger is wearing a knock off; im still against it regardless who it is.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 5:58PM

This is much less about knockoffs and more about judging a "friend" on the world wide web!

Frenemy much Kyle?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 6:01PM

LOL at the fact that you are trying to protect YSL when really, they did the same exact thing as F21. Hellllo- they took a famous painting that was produced by none of their designers and slapped it on a dress. F21 took a dress design and slapped into onto theirs. Not much difference. Man, you've just set Fashionista down a couple steps, in my book.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 6:03PM

I used to buy knock off bags alot, however tacky it was, until I realized that I could actually make a similar item myself. Instead of paying $800 for a little linen and lace mini dress this summer, I bought one with the same sillouette and played a little bit of chop shop- I cut off the bottom embroidery to make it shorter, then took it to a tailor and asked them to put the embroidery as an empire waist and to take the dress in a bit. Shortened the sleeves, took off some length, and suddenly my $60 dress plus another $60 for alterations looked just as good (if not, dare I say, better) and fit me like a glove. So, to people who don't know better, I don't think knock offs are a huge deal, especially if just limited to a shoe or a necklace.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 6:06PM

Does this mean for some people Adventures in Copyrights was actually a form of advertising for the knock-off brands?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 6:07PM

Quite the post to be making in the midst of an economic meltdown, Kyle. Apparently elitism is the new black.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 6:08PM

I agree with most of your commenter; especially comment 118.
Recently I ventured to Jeffery’s to buy a Stella McCartney dress, but once I felt the material and tried it on I didn’t see what made it designer besides the name tag. It felt and looked like many other dresses that I had seen at stores like Forever 21, Target, and I would go as far as saying Wal-Mart.
Although that is not the case for all designers, my point is that just because its “designer” doesn’t mean that you’re getting your moneys worth.
Overall, I was highly disappointed in your past, because it paints you as limited and shallow. Only a small population can afford designer clothing and accessories, the rest, who equally love fashion, must settle for the next best thing.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 6:10PM

i am one of those people that you all seem to dislike, with my parents' money to burn when i was younger and a good job in finance that pays well now. nevertheless, i wear hanes shirts and uniqlo jeans i bought on sale for $30, while i choose to splurge on bags and shoes. would i ever wear a knock off? absolutely not. i would rather purchase something cheap that is not a blatant fake. and no, you shouldn't wear a fake balenciaga bag if you can't afford the real deal. because, honestly, a fake is a fake and can usually be told apart from the real thing. it's like you're demonstrating to the whole world that you can't afford the real thing. i ask, why? you look cheap, sorry.
oh, and i own a blouse from f21, it's got a MJ vibe to it, but it's just a blouse. and i love it. because there is a difference between cheap and fake.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 6:26PM

I used to be an avid reader of Fashionista, but this post, along with countless others that highlight the making and use of "knock-offs" is getting old. You are bringing up the same discussion over and over and it's not getting any more interesting or any less ostentatious.

So please do your readers a favor and stop making posts about how much you all loathe imitations.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 7:04PM

personally, i would never wear a blatant knock-off, but i'll wear something that is designer-inspired, as long as it doesn't look cheap. like the majority of people, i can't afford designer clothes and accessories. i think fashionista is being elitist for looking down upon people who buy knock-offs--is not being afford designer items really an "irrelevant excuse"? it sounds like a perfectly good reason to me. i also find it strange that fashionista frequently butchers F21 for its knock-offs, yet gives Topshop and Zara knock-offs a pass, simply because theirs are more expensive and better made. seriously--knock-offs are knock-offs, and fashionista had better lose its hypocrisy. and as for the ethicality of knock-offs, i find nothing wrong with them, since those that can afford designer items would never buy knock-offs, and those that buy knock-offs could never afford designer clothes. so in effect, designers are not being ripped off or losing customers. what is illegal, however, are counterfeits that are sold off as being designer. or, as in the case of erin wasson, someone rich and well known taking the designs of another and calling them her own.

posted by Natalie Hormilla

Aug 12, 2008 7:10PM

just one point to add to the ysl/mondrian issue - ysl did not just "slap" one of mondrian's prints onto a shift - the print ysl used was undoubtedly inspired by mondrian (ysl became a great fan after his mother gave him a book of piet's work, he actually did a whole line inspired by mondrian, not just the one dress) but it bears mentioning that the actual print on the dress was not taken directly from any of piet's canvases.

furthermore, the reason ysl's mondrian dress is so important in fashion history is mostly because of the way he applied the print to the shift. each color block in the original mondrian dress was connected separately, the seaming hidden in the black lines separating the blocks, so that the dress still fell nicely against the body. he adapted something that looked like just flush planes of color to work with the 4-D shapes of the body. this idea becomes even more interesting when you realize that mondrian's paintings were not flat either, though they appear to be upon first inspection - he purposefully layered many coats of paint, depending on the color block, to create depth where he wanted and flatness where he wanted, kind of like generating depth with color and brushstrokes. ysl played with the same idea, except with the body.

knowing the history makes the knock-off extra strange (and maybe even a little funny) if you ask me.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 7:25PM

what is your problem with copies?
I have never read a single solid argument in any of these posts about why copies are bad.

if you can point out a substantial loss to the market of actual designer stuff, then i guess i could understand your case, but the demographics of normal shops and designers are completely different

designers sell status; F21 sells cheap shoes

even so, how is buying a ysl knockoff any different than making a lego belt or dip dying your tights?

and if the problem is moral and ethical, shouldn't we worry more about stores that sell sweatshop-made clothing (nearly every store i know) where people are actually suffering from our actions than rich designers that can sue?

not to mention designers do not invent everything on their runway, everything that trickles down to forever twenty one is usually a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 7:41PM

i care a lot about fashion and never wear fakes as long as i can help it.
BUT that's simply not always possible. as miranda priestley says in the devil wears prada (lol), the couture you see in magazines and on the runway is what influences off-the-rack fashion down the line. cheesy reference, but it's true.

some are straight knockoffs, like f21 often does, but probably 75% of people who buy them don't know they're even buying a straight knockoff. the one's who do...that's their choice.

i really don't think it's anyone's place to judge someone because we have the information and they might not. maybe they do, but again, that's their choice -- if they stopped buying fakes, the knockoff market WOULD NOT cease...because unknowing people will always be willing to buy cheap goods no matter what they look like or where they come from. the only thing we CAN do is be able to justify our own choices and not worry so much about those we have no control over :)

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 7:44PM

Um, maybe the knock offs are cute, too?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 7:45PM

If you ran into two people, one person wearing the real tributes and another wearing a knockoff, tell me you wouldn't laugh/feel a little sorry for the one who paid 5 times more than the other girl. One of the reasons the originals are so expensive is for the exclusivity; my congrats would go to the girl who spent less money for the same great style

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 7:52PM

There is only so much you can do with a basic, black or brown leather classic gladiator, whether heel or flat, as seen on the runways recently. Baker's is making it possible for those women who can't afford more than $60 for a fashion-forward shoe to have access to what's 'in' this season.

Fashion would be entirely limited to the $100,000+ paychecks and daddy's little rich girls if it were not for the trickle-down aspect of stores like Baker's, Nine West, Urban Outfitters, H&M or Forever 21. And Topshop is just as guilty, does anyone else remember the navy and white star jumpsuit that was raved about in it's own post here, that everyone could see was a blatant rip-off of Chanel?

A pretentious post that discriminates against the majority of the people that read this website -those who can't afford designer pieces every season, was unwise on the Fashionista's part, and downright bitchy on Kyle Hayes's part.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 7:57PM

I agree with everything that the commenter at 132 said.

Designers copy other designers all of the time. How many big name designers have come out with gladiator sandals? How many designers make clothing that look as if it could have come right off of the Rick Owen's runway? I've seen designer pieces which were much more than inspired by another designer's ideas. Yet, somehow that's okay?
Also, I don't really see how knock offs (not canal street knock offs) would really hurt the fashion industry. From what I've seen, those who can afford designer clothing are not going to be shopping at Forever 21, instead, they're going to be buying the original, high priced, design. Those who can only afford to shop at Forever 21, are not going to be buying the real thing anyway.
In my opinion, Forever 21 gives those who aren't able to shop at Bergdorf Goodman a way to be fashionable without forcing them to give up food or shelter in order to pay for their purchases.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 8:10PM

This has to be a joke. Honestly, what difference does it make to you if your friend buys a knock off or the real thing? Either way, she's going to look good.. which is the exact mentality of the majority of shoppers who enter most stores that carry mass produced items. TONS of stores rip off designers. Urban Outfitters does it constantly, along with Zara, Delia's, Wet Seal, etc. There is nothing wrong with buying a knock off. I can guarantee you half of the people walking down the street you would deem as "fashionable" are wearing a knock off of some sort.

The only thing I can honestly say looks ridiculous ripped off is monogram bags; they're always really cheaply made. I don't care if anyone wears them I just wouldn't myself.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 8:21PM

It's quite obvious that everyone who has commented thus far either don't work in fashion or have no real grasp on the industry's feelings on fakes.

If any of the commenters who believe that it's ok to wear a fake because you can't afford the original and therefore call the Fashionista crew "pretentious" "snobby" "stuck up" or any of the legions of other names you've called them, put themselves in Nicholas Ghesquiere's (that is..if you even know who he is) shoes and saw your works getting ripped off, you'd be upset, too.

PLUS, if you think that people aren't losing money on knock offs being sold at forever 21, than you're freaking insane. If Fendi had all the money that was spent on the Spy bags they ripped off, or Louis Vuitton had all the money that was being given to the vendors on Canal street..hello! Obviously they're losing money.

Put yourself in their shoes, you commenting bitches and think about it for a second. And, get a grip on the fashion reality, no one in the fashion world thinks it's ok to wear a blatent copy of something. I say BRAVO fashionista for asking a simple question and making it known that some people who "think" they know fashion, are really just a bunch of idiots.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 8:25PM

This is one of the most pretentious posts I have ever read on this site. Not because of the defense of the designer, but because of the elitist way in which one would speak to his friend and post it on a popular website.

That being said, I actually do agree with the fact that Forever21 rips off designers too much. I don't mind inspired designs, but when pieces look almost identical to the actual designer item, it makes me angry. Why? Because it takes a lot of time and effort to design a garment. Because it is both the designer's love and livelihood to create such things. To do such a thing in any other field would definitely be called stealing or plagarism. I am both an artist and a designer(though not fashion) and I would be devastated if someone else or some larger company would make a profit off of my designs. And just because it happens all the time does not make it right. Also, while knock offs may somewhat hurt the big fashion houses (ysl, gucci, etc) it hurts the smaller designers much, much more. These designers have a tough enough time as it is making a living.

It is true that not everyone can afford high fashion. I am one of them. While I completely hate the copies, I have no problem with designer INSPIRED clothing. This can be done easily without creating knock offs. There are plenty of capable and intelligent people working for big companies such as forever21, urban outfitters, etc. - they are more than able to do their own interpretation in trends of the season.

posted by fauvism3

Aug 12, 2008 8:30PM

#138 I think the problem Kyle has (forgive me for trying to intuit) is that she willingly and knowingly bought knockoffs...she is disregarding the designer's work as well as the design assistants, etc. all the way down to the people who made the shoes/skirt for their original labels.

and while I have read deluxe, it is not as salacious as one guest asserts--sorry your Stella shoes broke but stuff like that happens. no matter which way you cut it, something from f21 or bakers or asos or whichever imitation is more likely to be produced in a third world country by underpaid workers--you can tell based on price point. for a 600 dollar shoe, I am sure YSL/PPR get a lot of that...but also the designer, the assistants, manufacturing, etc. for a 60 dollar shoe? how much does the person who made that get??

posted by Lulublue

Aug 12, 2008 8:48PM

A: Yes, technically it would be more ethically correct if we always found a creative alternative to supporting knock offs....but if someone loves the ysl shoes, just the way they are (except for the price tag) , why shouldn't they be able to go out and buy some representation of the original, this is America…were suppose to “pursue happiness”….

B. I think its incredibly naive to assume the designer goods you view as untouchable and original aren't "knock off's" in some form themselves...

C. There’s a classy appreciator of fashion, and then there’s the showy, tacky, label conscious fashionista that come a dime a dozen, who are you hiring fashionista?

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 8:59PM

OMG I have to say that I looove Fahsionista but this article paints you as just a bunch of PRUDES! What the? I love you guys heaps but this was just to far! I mean think about all of us 17year olds who obviously can't afford the 'real' stuff but still love the aesthetic of a brand and who still want to channel that vibe? I mean look at all of the other crap you see that is just plain boring and then when you see such a good copy that you know would set you out from the rest? But realistically all clothes are somewhere along the way just watered down copies of the original! DERRR!

Sorry but this article just bugged me A LOT!

S.A.A.

www.seventhavenueaustralia.blogspot.com

No.1 online Independent Australian Fashion Blog!

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 9:09PM

Great debate....I think you guys broke your comments record. And now my point:

First I would never wear a knock off, there are knock offs because the designer item it's already known, so why buy something that would look cheap (in some cases off corss) and also you would have a piece of clothing a lot of people already have too.

And I also think (you can hate me for this) that almost the 90% of the people is missing the point with the idea of designer items are knock offs, and they'r NOT, YES they'r are inspired by everyday stuff like grafitti, nature, different cultures, or art and music, but their job is to translate these things into great clothes and let them out here for whoever want to wear them because it's all about "PERSONAL STYLE".

I'm a college student and I preffer to save for a great designer item that would make me proud and happy, and that doesn't mean my closeth is full of designer items or that I am a rich kid actually I can count with one hand my designer items.

And for the haters of the wealthy ones because some comments are all about envy, haven't you see the pictures of Carine Roitfled in thesartorialist wearing a denim skirt and a regular t-shirt?????? again it's all about "PERSONAL STYLE" even she saids "You should buy a couple of designer basics and some pair of shoes every season to ADD to your wardrobe" you have to own the clothes and make them yours doesn't matter if they're cheap or expensive what matters is their ORIGINALITY and that's why designer items are the best, it would be always one designer that would fit your personal style.

CÉSAR A.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 9:10PM

I would say that fakes are not cool, but I do agree that for those who feel that they need to have the latest YSL dress (or whatever) but can't afford it and want seek out an alternative, well, that is their right. I have to agree that style is a personal thing and I would rather be thoughtful about my choices and not just buy something that looks like something else.

Kyle, I am sorry you are taking a lot of heat for this post. I understand that you were just trying to bring up an issue that you felt was important. I hope your friend is understanding and not feeling hurt about your judgmental assessment of her purchases.

I do love visiting this blog, and to the contrary of what others say, I will keep reading. The current discussion is good and thought provoking and despite some posters lacking tact, Kyle and Fashionista have started a discussion that needs be had.

posted by hannah

Aug 12, 2008 9:12PM

I'm generally fine with the attitude of writers on Fashionista, but... no. No. So snobby it hurts. "I winced. Such an irrelevant excuse and yet kept in a holster." Irrelevant? How so? I also can't believe you thought people only bought knockoffs unwittingly... amazingly naïve. Hello? I can't afford anything near designer. I want to get a designer's look. I buy Forever 21. It in no way hurts x couture brand to buy a $30 Forever 21 knockoff of a $1000 or more dress. That's the way it is... and I'm certainly not the only one that feels this way.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 9:15PM

I'm totally agree with you #139

CESAR A.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 9:25PM

#139--I think the fact that you thought "you commenting bitches" was a good insult puts you right into your own category, honey. Take your own advice and "get a grip".

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 10:03PM

commenter #139, if you're going to berate us for not having fashion cred as strong as yours, maybe you can at least get the spelling right?

it's "nicolas"

but congrats for getting fendi right.

p.s. the article posted by commenter #109 is really interesting in the context of this discussion. it adds a bit more dimension...which is welcome given this is the 8 millionth fashionista write-up on this subject.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 10:25PM

I've been reading this all day and finally decided to post. I have to admit, I'm in the 'dont' buy fakes' category. Though I can't afford the designer clothes, I think that a lot of things on the runways are mesmerizing, and to take those garments down to the cheapest level possible, so everyone can have it, completely diminishes the artistic skills of the designer.
I study art history in school and natalie, your post at #131 was great!! I never knew that about YSL, and I really hope that others read that. It places an entirely new light on that particular dress, and for it to be made into a cheap imitation by f21 is such a shame.
As for the girls who buy those blatant knockoffs, they obviously like fashion for its of-the-moment look, as opposed to a moving piece of art.

131

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 10:42PM

I will never in my life purchase a blatant fake, ie a $30 "Chanel" purse, however my closet contains items that may be knockoffs. I buy what I like because at the end of the day I'm not going to go into a store, find an item and google it before I buy it to make sure it's not a knock off. Bottom line, if I like it, it looks and fits good, suits my style I'm buying it not caring what the label is.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 11:10PM

didn't derek lam say a few months ago that he doesn't care about knockoffs, they just push him to keep creating new things, instead of staying stagnant? that's fashion, and at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if you wear a knock-off or not. all this talk about production...trust me, there are sweatshops in new york too. if you don't like knock-offs, don't wear them...but let someone else make their own decision about the forever 21's of the world.

as for this kyle...it reminds me never to hire an intern that pretentious. thanks.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 11:11PM

I'd feel better about this post if THIS VERY BLOG hadn't spent a month+ foaming at the mouth over the J.Crew version of the Balenciaga blazer.

Because I *KNOW* that if it had been F21 who had done it (and not J.Crew), it would have been vilified as a god awful knock-off.

posted by guest

Aug 12, 2008 11:54PM

#139 - boo hoo, one less yacht, one less vacation.

ripoffs of up-and-coming designers are deplorable, but big designers are quite frankly "ripping off" people like you.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 12:06AM

No, probably not. I have a well paying job at 17, so I'm going to be patient and save up! I love designers, so i support them!

posted by Jas

Aug 13, 2008 12:29AM

I will chose to not get into the ethical/choice argument that has been so greatly debated on both sides by the previous 152 comments.

However, guest #139, Louis and Fendi and whomever else is being knocked off on Canal, are losing intangible wealth in terms of intellectual property rights, surely, but actually liquid cash flow--not so much. They can't be losing money for transactions or funds that were never in their possession. Perhaps just a semantic argument, but for all its worth the people buying Canal St. knockoffs were probably never going to (or obviously by their actions could afford to) buy Fendi or LV. So in reality, those companies are not at a loss per se. Although surely they should have monetary rights to their designs. But given the choice between $1200 purse and a $30 purse, the knockoff buyer has already acted in a manner that would never have benefited the Originators.

posted by Halie

Aug 13, 2008 1:33AM

A) Those shoes aren't exciting or groundbreaking. They aren't covered in copyrighted designs, like logos. They're cute. They're cheap. They're inspired by YSL. So be it.

B) I hope your "good friend" doesn't read this blog. She gave you the reasons for not purchasing the originals, all of which are completely legit.

C) I can see recognizing the F21 dress as a fake, but to recognize the shoes? Someone has a little too much time on their hands... I know you work in fashion but please.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 2:07AM

And the Incredibly Ridiculous Post goes to... KYLE HAYES.

One more disgusting knock-off comment... about Forever 21. 'Cause, you know, J. Crew does wonderful spot on "fashionable" replicas. Hmm.

Oh, and this shows off to see how ostentatious you can be. A pretentious minuscule blogger who just ruined my daily Fashionista fix.

I'm done.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 3:41AM

Commenters, you dont have to call the Fashionista staff, b**c*es. Britt, do you have to be so jugdemental towards your friend, I'm sure everyone can talk about knock-offs and fashion without name calling.

Personally I feel knock-off (the ones where you find in China Town, with labels and even trademarks copied into the item) are just plain bad. But an "inspired by" item is ok.

posted by ShaSha

Aug 13, 2008 3:57AM

Honestly, if these designers did not charge 70%-80% more than what it actually cost them to make each item, why should we really care about their "art"? I understand the revenue is suppose to cover the cost of their creation but that is not what the price tag shows. It shows that they are covering all cost but also trying to attain a VERY LARGE profit. I have no desire to help companies continuously rape us financially because of greed.

Some people aren't proficient in economics but there's a concept in economics that has to do with consumers: inferior and normal goods. Inferior goods are goods that when a person's income increases then their demand for that good decreases, most likely because they can afford better quality items and are able to live to a higher standard. Forever 21 clothing are usually considered inferior goods. A normal good is a good that when a person's income increases, their demand for that good also increases. Prada is usually considered a normal good.

Some of you are wondering why the hell I explained that. Well, when people buy the lower quality good and all other conditions remain the same, it DOES NOT affect the amount of higher quality goods sold. People who don't have the income to buy the normal good (the expensive, better quality item) are going to buy the inferior good, no matter what! The people with the $ are most likely going to buy the expensive good!

So basically, knockoffs really don't matter. (Random Sidenote: Even if it did matter, the fashion house's insane profits should make up for whatever $ they lose because of a knock-off.)

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 5:25AM

Get over it fashion snob.

You are such a loser.
(that is a refrence to you, not a friend)

posted by collegiate

Aug 13, 2008 7:13AM

I know that multiple people have already said this, but I'm going to say it again. I think that direct knock offs are wrong. There are no grey areas in exact copies. I also think its wrong to take a pattern someone created and plastering it on a bunch of clothes in Forever 21. But as someone who can only afford maybe one designer item every 2-3 years (gotta pay for college) I am all for inspired design.
I believe that difference between inspired and copied is simple. Inspired is seeing fringe all over the runway and making fringe dresses and fringe bags. Copying is that Mayle Dress, that I don't feel like finding the link for.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 7:40AM

This post shows not just petty snobbery, it shows a lack of knowledge of the industry. EVERYBODY is knocking each other off on all levels. One of this sites favorite designers is known for sewing their own labels into vintage pieces and sending them down the runway.
This post is even a "knock-off" of previous post on this topic--I think you are just doing it for page views.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 7:55AM

I actually work as a Fashion Designer - no, I'm not going to mention the brand - and I'll buy a knock off of a competitor's item, if I think it's ridiculously priced.

The question you may now be asking yourself, is do I get upset if someone knocks off my work? Of course I do. However, I look at the marketing aspect of it too: If someone is interested enough to research the knock off, and track down the original, then they may actually buy it from me. Also, if my design was good enough to copy then I take it as a compliment. However, if I notice that someone is trying to make tons of money off of my original work, I'll sue the pants off of them.

The way most design houses deal with knock offs and fakes is to either create a less expensive diffusion line - this discourages consumers from buying the fakes, as they can get a "real" item at a lower price point - or have really good lawyers that aggressively protect their Intellectual Property.

As with any creative endeavor, fashion designers copy and improve on each other's work all the time. It's just the nature of the beast. And, we accept it as such.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 8:39AM

Agree with #23- REspect the Designers? Are you f-cking kidding me? Are they respecting me with those prices?

Furthermore, wearing full on designer garb is so tacky. Celebrities who do that end up looking like walking advertisements. The most fashionable people I know and see in magazines wear eclectic mixes of high and low.

posted by fauvism3

Aug 13, 2008 9:15AM

#165-I agree with you that the ideal mix is high low, but lows don't have to be knock offs...they can be vintage/thrifted/American Apparel/Gap/whatever.

Where I disagree is the pricing--for fabrics, labor, shipping costs, etc. that is where your money is going. SO no they are not disrespecting you, they are respecting their laborers and their fabric mills and their distribution and their PR...everyone needs to get paid. GAP might be "respecting you" by giving you cheap cute clothes but at what cost to their laborers? I am sorry but fashion is inherently exclusive in terms of pricing. Also sorry for the imperious nature of this post but yours came of as really entitled.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 9:56AM

What I find really hysterical about this whole thing was that Kyle and the Fashionista crew simply stated their opinion and asked EVERYONE ELSE if they would wear a knock off if it were good enough.

Yup, shocker, there was actually a question posed to the general public.

Sadly, everyone ignored the purpose of the post and went on to attack them and show just how immature the online community can be.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 10:06AM

People have this conception vintage is cheap its not even close. Yes i do own some designer bags, sunglasses etc. Everyone copies everyone in fashion everyone does it some way shape or form when it comes to the shape color etc.

Sometimes even if you love fashion you can not always know every single garment if its knocked off or not. These stores are allowing people to have the designer stuff at a affordable price.

Yes sometimes designer is worth if its a timeless piece but so much of it is not. And btw fashionista even that said the mondrian dress was cute.

But for some reason i do think fake bags are incredibly tacky.

posted by i hope

Aug 13, 2008 10:10AM

As an environmentally conscious fashion designer on a student budget, the concept of the f21 fast fashion knockoff is tempting but unappealing in the end. There's so much more to be considered than the look of a garment; sure, a dress might be cute and inexpensive but its creation represents all that I dislike about the industry. There's the toll on the environment from global production and the huge amount of clothing that's thrown away because of cheap construction or materials.
I'm not coming down on everyone who buys from mass manufacturers; it's completely understandable. I've just made a personal choice to invest in a few pieces and buy the rest secondhand. I love the history behind thrifted and vintage clothing and love that (to a certain extent) I'm not wearing watered down versions of whatever designers are doing each season.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 10:18AM

Honestly I never even really thought of clothes and shoes as knock offs until this site. I just thought of those items as affordable versions of the high end items. Honestly who has thousands of dollars to spend on some shoes or a shirt? I am definitely not going to spend money I don't have, to rock designer outfits. Now I can see saving up for a Prada or Fendi purse but OH please!!! I'm not about to spend my last on a $100 white shirt that I can get from Forever 21 for $15.90!!! That's absurd!!! These designers design for stars, rich ppl or those in high credit card debt so until I can afford high end items, like the Extreme Dior Gladiator shoes for $770 you must believe I'll be getting the Candice shoes (that look just like them) from bakers for $64.99!! You don't have to look like a million bucks by spending a million bucks!!! I can look like a million for under a couple hundred!!!!

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 10:19AM

I would actually like to hear what Kyle has to say now... Kyle? I believe its your turn.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 10:54AM

If you absolutely cannot afford designer and not everyone can then yes F21 and similar stores are absolutely perfect for attempting trends you simply cannot afford, Yet with that being said every fashionista knows that design involves more that just the print or cut or how cute it looks on a rack or in the catalogue - it also involves construction -those minute details that we skimp over like most commentators have mentioned before in this trend - how well is the garment stitched, how well is the zipper mounted - is the fabric tacky? can it hold up well have one wash? will it fade? can it be dry cleaned? does it easily wrinkle?

Bottom line is if you're gonna do cheaper knock-offs - do it well then no one will know the difference. But if you absolutely must stick with the labels check into fashionista daily for the amazing sales and nifty styles secrets. After all being a fashionista is knowing your fashion.

side-note: I am absolutely not involved with fashionista in any way - just a fan of the site.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 10:57AM

no way when I see a knock-off on someone, you can't help but think:
1) Ew.
2) What were you thinking?
3) It's quite comical that you think you're so cool.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 11:11AM

Inspired = Code for "acceptable knock off"

So all you people who think your better beacause your wearing an "INSPIRED" piece then your fooling yourself.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 11:16AM

I'm against some knock-offs but not others. A copy of a dress at F21? No big deal. A fake Louis on the street? A total no-no.

However, I don't buy counterfeit goods for reasons other than it is "tacky." In the past year or so, I have read more and more supporting the notion that the knock-off industry is the new drug trade for terrorist cells.

Think about it: Much like cocaine or heroin, counterfeit goods are cheaply produced, and easily pushed on the street.

Some of you probably think this sounds silly, but in other western and eastern nations, buying fake goods is a serious offense. In Thailand, getting caught with a fake is a SERIOUS offense (and I would NEVER want to have legal problems in Thailand). But keep in mind, I'm not talking about COPIES. I'm talking about blantent fakes. Like a polo with the lacoste emblem slapped on it.

Similarly in Switzerland, if you are caught at the border with a fake, you incur a misdamenor fine PLUS the cost of what the real good would cost. Therefore your $100 rolex just cost you $25K!

If you don't believe how serious the connection between counterfeit goods and terrorism is, check out this NYTimes article. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DE7DF153CF935A25754C0A9659C8B63

It might teach judgemental "friends" like Kyle that there is more to the debate against knock-offs than "tackiness."

-Guest 27

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 11:27AM

If the knockoff is well made, doesn't it really make it a non-issue? because here we're really not talking about the actual FASHION, but rather the label/brand. Isn't style about how you look and how you combine things, and not about how much $/connections you have and what label you are wearing?

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 11:35AM

IS THERE ANYWAY TO HEAR WHAT KYLE HAS TO SAY ABOUT ALL THIS?

p.s. hey kyle, you know what would be an even more interesting post - A RESPONSE FROM YOUR FRIEND THAT YOU JUST INSULTED ON THE INTERNET. if she doesn't have something interesting to say about the knock off debate, i'm sure she'll have plenty to say about what a good ole friend you are.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 11:40AM

As if there was still original design. Majority of designers pull inspiration from vintage and recreate/or copy vintage design. As long as the slap a label on it, you believe in standing on your soapbox to defend essentially an unoriginal design. So who's to say if h&m, topshop or your dreaded forever 21 copies marc jacobs, but marc copies a vintage design it's still all good. That just makes you a hypocrite.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 12:00PM

The thing is I think Kyle is kind of right and no I dont have lots of cash. Im just out of highschool and the thing is I even find F21 and H&M overprized *shocking* ? I know anyways I love fashion but I dont like KO especially the bags I hate them. But so I love fashion and I really like to be stylish so I always mix things together and do DIY and buy at triftstores but then again not everybody is that creative. So bottom line Buy whatever you want KO or the real thing. BUT PLEASE PEOPLE BE ORIGINAL !Dont look like 1 in a dozen because if theres anything I dislike is that everybody looks the same. BORING....period

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 12:01PM

the whole debate kind of strikes me as odd. i dont know, for me, sometimes i just like a piece for the aesthetics, with no care for the label, the lust-quality, or the fact that most people could not, realistically, buy it. therefore, a copy often falls into this category of "i just like how it looks". if a copy is good, it will please these same likes. whether or whether not, its forever 21, has no bearing on personal taste. sure, it's kind of campy. but hey, when we're all the next prospective editors of vogue and elle and glamour alike, i'm sure we'll stick to the creatively charged and serious-charge-worthy versions. but for now.. it's nothing personal.

dana

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 12:06PM

The thing is I think Kyle is kind of right and no I dont have lots of cash. Im just out of highschool and the thing is I even find F21 and H&M overprized *shocking* ? I know anyways I love fashion but I dont like KO especially the bags I hate them. But so I love fashion and I really like to be stylish so I always mix things together and do DIY and buy at triftstores but then again not everybody is that creative. So bottom line Buy whatever you want KO or the real thing. BUT PLEASE PEOPLE BE ORIGINAL !Dont look like 1 in a dozen because if theres anything I dislike is that everybody looks the same. BORING....period

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 12:44PM

something not many people have mentioned:

In addition to completely neglecting the fact that most people can't buy the original or afford a high-priced vintage item, you also neglected the fact that most people have lives. A vast majority of people who are into fashion and style have jobs outside of the fashion industry and simply do not have time to know every single design of every single designer. Their interest in fashion and aesthetics may lead them to well designed items, but in no way does it mean that they spend every minute outside of work focusing solely on fashion. Speaking personally, I have a strong interest in my outward presentation and style, but I have a 9-5 job and have to fit in the rest of my life in the remaining free hours. Simply put: most people don't have the luxury of time and money to be as elitist towards clothing tastes.

posted by fauvism3

Aug 13, 2008 12:50PM

Guys--Fashionista HAS tackled MJ before...a post a while back on a Marc by Marc t-shirt with the exact same bird design as Hollister? I'm too lazy to look that up but it's there.

I think it's so funny that people are calling out Kyle/Britt/fashionista in general for being judgmental when really, what interaction do you have with any of them outside of the blog? Unless you are their friends, how do you know anything about them? So let's leave the assumptions on the sideline and actually tackle the issue. And, aren't you being judgmental by calling Kyle pretentious and a bad friend? I don't work for fashionista nor do I know anyone who does, but I just think there is no need for judgment on anyone's part.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 1:11PM

WOW are you that naive to think everyone can afford the real thing?????

posted by gen

Aug 13, 2008 1:22PM

If I want something that badly [rare], I want the exact form & details, not the name on the label. Usually I just want a particular hue or shape, & there's plenty options for that... getting what I want without a designer label on it is great, costs me way less. I've never wanted something enough to buy a direct fake, & the things I've wanted don't usually inspire knock-offs! But the high street copied something I wanted that badly - right now, THOSE Chanel/Laurence Decade gun heels - if Topshop did them, I'd buy 4 pairs.

I'm aware of the ethical issues, but there's another issue to consider here -

It's a bit sad that collectively we're obsessed enough with 'fashion' - i.e. the cache of particular labels, rather than the particulars of stunning design - when did that word get warped? - to make the knock-offs a serious issue. It's sad buying a fake just so you can say you've got the new Chloe bag, & it's also sad advising people that where possible they should be buying designer originals. Given the number of people in debt these days, it's irresponsible and unkind.

How about advising people that where possible they should get over it, stop obsessing over something that they can't legitimately afford, and if they wanna shop, find something pretty, IN THEIR BUDGET - nice if it's something totally different, not really anyone else's business if it's not? Don't dress up luxury shopping as an ethical choice - most of the time luxury is exactly - and all - it is.

On the F21 note, I often see designer clothes that are unfairly pricy - unoriginal/uninspiring design, average fabric [£250 for a jersey t-shirt dress, in a boutique last week - are you kidding me?] , and in some cases the workmanship is poor. These prices are justifiable where the quality & detail can't be reproduced by cheaper retailers, but beyond that, I'm not going to revere designers.

posted by jl774

Aug 13, 2008 2:11PM

The blogger completely misses the point that fashion exists in a market economy. Yes, fashion is a form of artistic expression but you can't expect the industry to survive without allowing competitors to make their versions of an original. In fact, this competition probably induces more creativity because companies consistently have to be the first to create an innovative design. It seems dubious that fashion is only deemed wearable and worthy if it is authentic. What is produced at the top eventually trickles down to the bottom. If copy cats are so egregious then does that mean we should also apply this fallacious logic to other industries? Should we prevent pharmaceutical companies from producing the same meds at lower prices for people who can't afford the originals? Or what about the dining industry? Should fast food companies or mom and pop restaurants be prevented from making their version of gourmet foods for consumers who can't afford going to fancy restaurants?

What an insipid world we would live in if we were only offered one option--especially an option that most people could not afford.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 2:21PM

I have to say that i don't agree with the majority of people that have responded to this post. I don't EVER shop at F21. It is a waste, the clothes are crap. And people who do buy knock-offs (those who I know) do so because they WANT to appear to be able to afford the high end items. I don't make a lot of money but like Brit said there are so many options between knock off and designer. I think "disposable" clothes are so wasteful...instead of buying 5 cheap-o items buy one item that you will wear for years to come...

posted by marc lover

Aug 13, 2008 2:36PM

THANK YOU # 153!!!!!!!!!!!

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 3:11PM

This is the first time I have ever read this blog, and I think this is the epitome of why I don't read fashion blogs.

Fashion is not about what name is on the label of what you wore. It's about taking pieces and putting them together in a way that is your own. I love fashion. I just don't give a shit about what other people say about what I wear. I don't watch fashion shows. I rarely read magazines. I just go into stores and buy what I like, and I think that makes me more fashionable than most people out there because I'm not trying to copy any certain look. If you're so worried about who made what, then obviously you're just another drone trying to recreate what you saw from some designer.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 3:50PM

You guys are so ridiculously pretentious. You love knockoffs sometimes, you hate them at other times.

I hate when small designers are ripped off (like Bliss Lau), but a huge entity like Balenciaga or Louis Vuitton is simply selling overpriced crap. Have you read "Deluxe"?

And if designers are so much more ethical than high street stores, why is a $500 ADAM dress made in china?

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 3:52PM

The responses to this post are fascinating. It's interesting to see how much resentment so many of Fashionista's readers have about this issue - one that has honestly already been talked about at great length on this blog. I think Fashionista probably posts these things to get more traffic on their website, since at the mention of the word copyright EVERYONE is immediately up in arms.

Fashionista has been hypocritical at times, endorsing the knock offs they like and condemning the ones they don't, but that doesn't mean they are all rich snobs who hate people who don't have as much money as they do - there are also a ton of posts on the site about affordable clothes and accessories that are original, as well as posts about sample sales, etc. To think that Fashionista will judge you if you don't wear expensive clothes is such an oversimplification and isn't even true. Britt said it best when she wrote that there aren't just 2 categories, designers and designer knock offs. There are plenty of affordable clothes out there that aren't rip offs and dare I say Fashionista even sometimes helps you to find them.

This issue has been talked about to death and frankly it's getting a bit boring, especially because so many commenters oversimplify the issue, making their opinions invalid. And enough with all the finger pointing at Forever 21.. Let's all agree to disagree and change the subject.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 4:49PM

Wow. Kyle, look around honey. You pass legions of people who wear designer knock offs every day and have a love of fashion.

Perhaps you have been blessed with a large wallet or friends in high fashion places willing to slip you amazing pieces but for most people this is not the case.

While I have to agree with the fact that most of what Forever21 is tacky and poorly maid (they turned the Anna Sui dress I wore to prom into a hideous t-shirt), I find it a lifesaver when I need something fast.

The truth is, while finding original, vintage pieces is great, sometimes its simply easier to stop by F21. Oh and yea, I don't have an endless supply of money to buy desginer.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 5:04PM

Would I wear a knock off? The better question is who doesnt? Only an elite few could afford the real deal and even they shop and mix and match with chain store watered down versions of some designs. Fashionista, get off your high horse and wake up! What world do you live in?

Oh and I would hate to be your friend. Snobby and pretentious only begins to describe this last entry.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 5:21PM

very well written, commenter #186. the blogger clearly doesn't understand economics and the fashion market.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 7:21PM

What about the concept of trends? Every season everyone comments on the trends seen on the runway, and what's in. How do trends even come about? By copying. By designers imitating and ripping off each other.

All art is inspired. Whether you rip off an the complete design, concept, and execution of a garment or just a color in it is all the same. It's not less a crime, if that's what you are going to make it. Calling something an "inspired" version of a garment is just a way to make yourself feel better about wanting to copy something you see.

And if you can't afford the original, buying vintage to imitate the look is, again, still copying the style. However you slice it, you aren't the one originating the look. And that's all it boils down to - thinking that if you can afford the original, and you can wear the hell out of it, people in your circle will associate it with you. And that's just you ripping off the creativity of the designer for your own personal gain.

posted by EcoIngenue

Aug 13, 2008 8:07PM

I feel like this debate is forever going on here at Fashionista! You guys are constantly putting up F21 knockoffs, as if no one has already noticed that all F21 does is create knockoffs! I think you guys are way too close to the NYC fashion industry to realize this, but most people cannot spend $700 on a pair of shoes or $2,500 on a bag, even if they saved up for months! The luxury fashion industry as a whole have been marking up prices like crazy for years now. I love fashion because I believe true design is a real art that should be supported, but LVMH and Gucci Group are making WAY too much money, meanwhile quality is decreasing while inflation is increasing! I think you guys need to start more inspired debates that can help to alleviate the inherent elitism that fashion creates.

posted by guest

Aug 13, 2008 8:09PM

#109, #156 and #186 own this post, sorry to say! Posts that reference the outside world, not just personal opinion are the best arguments for either side....

posted by therebelwaltz

Aug 13, 2008 10:56PM

We all already knew fashionistas were anti knockoffs...I think it's just the word "winced" that turned everyone off.

posted by guest

Aug 14, 2008 12:50AM

Power to Britt. Gracefully handled.

There was some confusion, luxury goods don't behave in the same way as regular goods in basic microeconomic analysis.

posted by guest

Aug 14, 2008 6:38AM

wow, you guys are absolute snobs. get a grip on reality. i have so much to say about this but can't even express it through my rage at reading this. can you tell someone to get f***ed on this website?

posted by guest

Aug 14, 2008 9:27AM

Britt, how do you feel then that the Agent Provocateur "Britt" set is basically a retread of the "Dita" playsuit from two seasons ago?

posted by guest

Aug 14, 2008 12:24PM

um, can we talk about how this post directly contradicts the one that it links to about the mondrian dress?...they wrote in that post about how they were "smitten" with the forever 21 dress, despite the fact that is was a knockoff.

whatever...yet another snobby, irrelevant, elitist post from kyle. this blog has gone to crap lately.

posted by guest

Aug 14, 2008 12:46PM

honestly i think a true knock off includes a rip off of a logo or pattern, not just a style. And honestly vintage isn't always an option for everyone, especially in new york city where vintage gets PRICEY and might not always come in your size, especially with shoes if you have bigger feet.

posted by natalievi

Aug 14, 2008 2:07PM

I can't believe I've read through the entirety of these comments. But, after reading the post and the comments, I was compelled to sign up and comment myself.

I can confidently say that I am probably the least fashionable reader of this blog but I come here to try and brush up on fashion and what's going on in that area of the world. I've always been interested in what goes on under those tents in Bryant Park!

With that said, I see fashion as a way of expressing yourself and who you are, not used as a way to leverage yourself above anyone else. What you wear, how much you pay for it, and where you shop ultimately reflect your character and the type of person you are. The fact this this post comes off as bombastic and arrogant goes to show why people refer to fashion as a "dog eat dog" lifestyle. It's people that are closed-minded like this that make it that way.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It shows the success of the designer and that their work has become a coveted item amongst the crowd.

Everyone is screaming "It's art!". If fashion is indeed art, wouldn't the designer want to share it with the world and let the masses have at it?

It's like Salvador Dali's art being massed produced, framed and sold for $10 at a rinky dink art store. Granted, it's not the original piece, but who can afford to buy the original Dali painting? It doesn't mean that because you bought the $10 piece of art, you appreciate it any less than the person that paid millions.

If I were a designer and ran into someone wearing a Forever 21 that was knocked off from my design, I would smile at her because the girl wearing it obviously bought it because she loves the design. If she loves the design, she appreciates the work that I did, regardless of how much she paid for it.

The only reason I see knock offs angering any designer is because it takes away from their revenue and that nice French riviera home they wanted to purchase.

posted by Erin

Aug 14, 2008 6:47PM

This is crazy. I love fashionista and obviously some other people are pretty upset. So just stop reading. You don't have to spread the negativity and judgment.

posted by oasispie

Aug 14, 2008 9:49PM

Haute Couture and High End fashion plays a significant role in determining the season's trends and looks. Therefore it is the inspiration for chain stores and cheaper outlets.

People who can't afford expensive fashion still have style and are fashionable, so why would you buy something similar, when you can buy something exactly the same, with the price tag you can afford.

However there are two sides to it, the counterfiet knock offs that finance illegal activities, are surely nothing similar to the knock off copy shoes in a normal retail store, which is trying to make fashion affordable and accessible.

Its easy to look good in great clothes, but it takes a far more stylish and fashionable person to be able to work chain store items and pull it off in the same manner.

posted by Ginge

Aug 14, 2008 11:34PM

In a word: yes. My Balenciaga-inspired motorcycle bag from Target is falling apart, but I still wear it.
I jumped at it when I saw it and regretted not getting it in multiple colors.

I just like the original so much.

And didn't people (someone on this site if I remember correctly) go crazy for those Balenciaga-esque J.Crew blazers last year?

posted by guest

Aug 15, 2008 12:40PM

To the people who "support" knock-off's and look down at those who spend their money on the real deal, I say get off your high horse. I am not a trust fund baby as one comment suggested but I take pride in being able to afford luxury items (and buy food and pay rent), so yeah, I'm pissed off when someone flaunts around their knocked off item from Canal that I worked hard to pay full price for. How are you a better person than I am because you didn't pay full price? Am I really a bad person for paying full price for my item? Does this mean I'm stupid for supporting a designer and not feeding into f21's throw away fashion? No, it means I take pride in the items I buy and will have them longer than your Canal street/f21 buys. So if this makes me pretentious, good- that's a label I'll wear proudly. I support Fashionista's stand on knock off's and if you don't like it, maybe you shouldn't be a reader of this site.

posted by guest

Aug 15, 2008 1:10PM

My only issue with F21 is the bible verse on the bottom of their bag. Am i unknowingly supporting the Christian right?

Anyway about the knock-offs. I have never knowingly worn a knock-off of a designer item but i do shop at zara and h&m am practically all their stuff is knocked off so who knows.

HOWEVER i would never buy a designer item at full price. The mark-up these days is insane. i would rather wait for a sale. in fact these days you can get a pair of Louboutins on sale for $180 marked down from $550. They have sample sales where you can get pumps for $200!

how much can a designer item really be worth if they can mark it down so drastically and still make a profit?

dont believe the hype.

posted by guest

Aug 15, 2008 3:30PM

Some people who buy knock-offs may do so simply because they like and can afford it. Perhaps they shop at cheaper stores like Forever 21 and find the styles and prices agreeable and so they become regular shoppers there. In such cases, they may rarely realize their potential moral or creative inattention. Even if they do, who am I to say what should or should not be bought?

Personally, I buy something simply because I like it, whether it is from a label, is a knockoff of a label, or agrees/disagrees with the fashion elitism of my more-fashionable-than-thou acquaintances. Paying a higher premium for nicer/designer items is the prerogative of anyone who can afford it, but it does not affect you in any way if someone buys an inferior knock-off, just as your desire, propensity, privilege, or hard-earned income necessary to buy what they may think is overpriced should not affect them. Fashion doesn't exist solely in a designer bubble. Fashion is mutable and as such, should be available accordingly. Sandal boots are hideous TO ME but if someone can rock an knock-off pair and look fierce and it's all that is affordable and attainable to them, then it is THEIR fashion and they are entitled to it. I might not like it, but I don't need to because I'm not wearing it. Open your minds, people.

posted by guest

Aug 15, 2008 4:13PM

The best comment thus far and the one I agree with most strongly is the one made by Guest 21 (Aug 12, 2008 2:30PM):

"i've never met a stylish person who spends lots of money on 'the real thing' because along with their stylish outfit, they also have stylish, interesting lives. they like to socialise, to dine out, to travel places, to read and watch and do. they have a good quality of life. in short, they love to look good but they are smart enough not to spend all their money doing it."

Amen!!!!!

posted by guest

Aug 15, 2008 9:14PM

@Comment 208:

I don't think that anyone is a better or worse person for anything they wear, but the writer seems to think otherwise. I think that's why everyone got so up and arms about the post in the first place

It's great that you can afford luxury items, and I understand that you take pride in it, but why should you be affected by someone flaunting their knockoffs?

Maybe that person works just as hard as you but isn't fortunate enough money as you do.

posted by guest

Aug 16, 2008 1:35PM

I am severely disappointed in the posts I have read here. I buy both designer and imitation, it all depends on what the occasion is. If I'm going to a place where my garments could be damaged (e.g. bar, club, concert) I wear F21, if it's dinner or a work event I go the high end route. I feel this is a responsible approach to a smart wardrobe. I was surprised however, that the consideration of sweatshops was not addressed. Although I do shop at F21 I feel guilty due to their explicit use of sweatshops. The clothing is cheap because they underpay illegal workers. It's a fact, look it up. I feel like this is a better argument than the "I wear designer because I'm better than you" or "I work hard to wear designer clothes" approaches. Trust me, you may work hard to purchase that Helmut Lang mini, but the workers making the clothing for F21 work infinitely harder. Come on people, lets use our heads.

posted by guest

Aug 17, 2008 3:07AM

yep I buy slight knock off's they are cute and I have no money

posted by neenersh

Aug 18, 2008 4:33PM

I usually just get "inspired" by a designer piece but if I find the knockoff then hell yeah I'm buying it. As long as I like the original in the first place...

posted by guest

Aug 19, 2008 4:46AM

speaking of knockoffs... marc jacobs bag that was all the rage a few years back in deed is an exact replica of a style that existed in the 60's. i believe BEFORE he was born.

i'm sure HE saw the same film reel that i saw and decided to copy the design and call it his own.

would you say he does what Forever21 does? hm... that's what i thought.

posted by aBEEcxyz

Oct 08, 2008 3:22AM

Woa...so many people said the exact same thing!

posted by guest

Oct 28, 2008 4:57PM

I like to wear either, or both whichever I like more or can afford....

posted by guest

Feb 04, 2009 8:52PM

I would never wear a knock-off intentionally for one reason: Designers work way to hard to make their designs worth so much. To just pay for a cheaper version of their own work is a huge insult to the designer.

If you can't afford a designer peice, at least have the decency to be original and use the designer's work as inspiration for a different, unique peice for your wardrobe. (which i'm sure they would be honored to be an inspiration to your own personal style.)