“Teen Vogue, like many fashion magazines, takes heat for photographing thin models. Guilty as charged — professional models are nothing if not tall and absurdly lanky… I am not the only person in the fashion industry who thinks these girls would be even more beautiful with a few additional pounds on their bodies. But outrage over even the boniest of celebrities and mannequins seems to obfuscate the more urgent and widespread story about Americans and weight. Only about 1 percent of women in this country are anorexic…[while] one in three U.S. children and adolescents are either overweight or obese.” — Amy Astley’s letter from the editor in June’s Teen Vogue.
2
posted by Jac
May 15, 2009 2:14PM
yeah, but how many women look at the models in the magazines and feel instantly inadequate? How many women in the US have disordered eating as a result of feeling pressure to be thin (dont we all?)? What about mental health Amy Astley? Is this a defense? Maybe I don't get what she's saying...because all I see here is Amy Astley = hit by a bus = me happier.
3
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 2:27PM
I somewhat agree with comment #2. I don't think Amy Astely should be hit by a bus as it is appropriate for the fashion industry to address the other side of the issue by bringing up obesity as a problem.
However, what the fashion magazine industry fails to address often is the emotional and mental health aspect of seeing these super lanky models and the social issues this brings up among young girls who see them.
I find that it's not a matter of defending fat or skinny people but rather honesty in the delivery of the message. Magazines should make it clear that what they show in their pages represents an IDEAL. Not reality. The message to young girls should be to try and live your best life through expressing yourself through fashion and not trying to achieve a specific height or weight. If that message came through more often I think the magazines would sound much less obnoxious and defensive.
5
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 2:33PM
Really guys? I actually agree with Amy Astley completely! Models are thin...they've always been, that's how you best hang clothes--on women who look like hangers! And no, that's not necessarily an ideal! I hear way more boys talk about Jessica Alba's body than Coco Rochas'.
OBESITY is ten times the problem in America. Size 14 should NOT be the average size. That is too fat! All this babying we have done to ourselves, whether it's lowering dress size numbers (I should be an 8 or 10 but I wear 4's and 6's now because of this) or creating cute phrases like "curvy!" To what purpose? Why change the culture to accept fatness when we should be changing the culture to promote health!
You'd be surprised how many seemingly "unattainable" bodies there would be if we all did what we were SUPPOSED TO DO: work out rigorously 5 days a week, and eat a diet of mostly fruits and vegetables supplemented by lean protein. GET IT IN YOUR HEADS!
8
posted by sugarshock
May 15, 2009 2:56PM
do teens actually read Teen Vogue? I don't know many teens (nor many adults, for that matter) who know what the word "obfuscate" means.
talk about being out of touch with your audience and "obfuscating" the issue...
9
posted by arcane
May 15, 2009 2:57PM
I don't see why adult people can't just say "Yes, anorexia is a problem, but I find it attractive" If you feel that way, then own it. But going into "yea, but what about obesity?" trivializes the whole situation and turns it into the eating disorder olympics. They're clearly both unhealthy.
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posted by Jac
May 15, 2009 3:12PM
guest 5 is missing the point. of course obesity is a problem. it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. that is also amy astley's mistake. no one on here has defended obesity. people do stress "oh shes curvy" and yeah it is annoying, but its irrelevant here. obesity may be the bigger PHYSICAL problem, but youre completely ignoring the ramifications of constant "inadequacy" has on the girls of america. I dont know anyone who isnt affected by this in some way or the other--some to a greater extent. People should not be obese and people should not have to feel as if they are only worth anything if they look like a model in a mag OR like J. Alba. It isnt either or. We should be healthy, mentally AND physically and your approach ignores that partnership.
11
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 3:37PM
Guest 5 back here. As I am one of these girls of America, I can tell you firsthand that yes, it sucks that Gisele is skinnier than I am. I'm 23 now, but back in the day I looked at models and felt like shit, too. But I knew then as I know now that this is simply one form of beauty.
I feel insulted as a woman that people continue to think that I am going to have some sort of mental breakdown if I see Adrian Lima in a bra and panties. Why doesn't anyone worry that boys will feel self conscious when they walk by an Abercrombie & Fitch? Because they know boys are ABOVE those sort of petty superficial thoughts? Well that simply cannot be true. Or can it? Are we such little sheep? It is insulting! Rise above it!
Models are skinny. That's their job description. Just like an athlete has to be strong, someone scaling the Himalayas has to have proper lung capacity...it's what is physically called for. I know I'm never going to look like Kate Moss. But I do what I should, which is exercise and proper diet. Anorexia is a horrible thing, and I have had several friends who have suffered from it. But it is not an epidemic. OBESITY IS!
I'm sorry if this is a very polarizing opinion, but obesity is effecting the country in droves. Skinny girls are not. Those girls who are suffering from anorexia or bulimia deserve help and I hope they get it. But it's insane to think that magazine pictures are making all women want to slit their wrists! Because they don't! If anything, it makes them eat MORE.
13
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 4:10PM
So Guest 5, size 14 shouldn't be an average? Hmmm. Most of the gals I know who work out, weigh what they should (not too skinny, not too heavy), and are healthy are a 12 or 14. None of us are short of course. And when you're my height (6'1"), a size 14 is just fine.
14
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 4:14PM
Guest 5 again. To Guest 13, no you are not average at all! Size 14 and 6'1" is very different from the average American woman who is a size 14 and 5'4". I'm not saying everyone should be universally the same size! But being that short and that large is not healthy. But American women are not as tall as you in general. Therein lies the problem.
16
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 4:47PM
The real issue is not anorexia versus obesity, but rather that the media, including Teen Vogue, fails to represent average, real women.
Astley's flawed reasoning provides for weak and absurd commentary: "don't focus on the controversial and ever-present weight issues within the fashion industry ... remember that kids are victims of obesity before anything else."
It is this kind of illogical thought that creates problems in the first place. Astley, your attempt to distract us with your left hand while you pull a fast one with your right is trite and overused.
17
posted by Jac
May 15, 2009 5:10PM
5, i am the same way. i rise above because I am strong willed and used to think that everyone should share my opinion. the truth is though, they DONT. it's personal responsibility versus a trillion dollar industry with the manpower, the marketing techniques and the influence. difficult to overcome for anyone. boys too should not feel pressured, but Amy mentions women specifically so I have chosen to focus on women for this discussion. the question isnt whether or not they fill their job description, it's should that BE the job description? once again though, it's not as if obese people are walking into the doctors office and being told "oop! cant treat you, got an anorexic in here who needs help". They can both be an issue.
18
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 5:47PM
I've been talking about this for years now. I mean, anorexia is a serious issue, I'm a psychologist for Christ's sake I should know. However the more serious issue, I'm afraid, is obesity in USA and in the rest of the world. Yes, there're some people who are ideolizing anorexic models and being unhealthy examples. But there're others, criticising naturally thin people and saying things like they're stick-thin and destroying their self-esteems. There're mothers over-feeding their children, believing that this is in fact healthy and people will say how a good mother she is if her child is fat! This is such a complex issue and many more outrageous cases can shown as examples. The bottom line is that obesity IS the more serious problem in our age however it doesn't have the magazine-selling value as anorexia does. So people go on and on about being thin and how dangerous it is. They don't even discriminate between "being thin" and "anorexia". Anorexia is a disorder. You can be naturally thin. End of the story! If being thin is such a bad thing then how come Japans and French people live longer than we do? Please people, use your senses!
19
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 6:03PM
I am not fat rather skinny but still I feel the pressure every day when I look at magazine commercials etc. So is it just me? Do I have not enough self confidence? I don't know the answer but I would say that the omnipresent promotion of skinny models hurts enough girls in women in psychological ways to call it an really important issue. In most cases it won't lead to anorexia but there are other kinds of mental problems. (of course this is not true for every girl or women).
But what makes me really angry is the fact that still a lot of people seem to accept the promotion of an ideal woman which does not match reality!
20
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 6:08PM
it's not an issue of being thin, rather than being healthy. Healthy does not exist on either extreme poles nor does it mean a certain dress size.
"Curvy" should be a word to used to help people help accept all the different shapes and sizes that healthy exists- not just a way to replace the word "fat." Look at women like Jennifer Lopez who has breasts and an ass. A girl who is naturally a size 0 or 2 does not mean she is healthy in any sense. She can be unhealthier than a girl who is a size 8 but does plenty of physically activity and eats right. everyone's body works differently.
Amy Astley is just trying to deflect the controversy surrounding hiring thin models but pointing out the obesity problem. I'm taking it in as a "it's not our problem, it's yours," a problem created out of insecurity. Personally, i don't see any of the models featured in teen vogue to be in any way appealing as they are skin and bones. Why not have a girl with actual muscle on her body?
21
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 6:09PM
Maybe if Amy thinks that these models would be even prettier with a few more pounds, she shouldn't consistently book the most emaciated looking ones to be in her magazine. I'm always shocked with how thin the Teen Vogue models are...thinner than the ones you see in the grown up Vogues for sure.
What a fatuous statement for her to make.
22
posted by RashomonRebel
May 15, 2009 6:46PM
Americans have been fed man-made chemicals and growth hormones through food products for a very long time.
The mentality has always been bigger is better. Bigger cars, bigger houses, bigger portions at McD's.
Through time and evolution, the genetic map of a parent gets reprogrammed to adjust to the new environment of different foods that are consumed and passes these unfavorable traits to the offspring.
Most of these super thin and tall models are from other countries, right? So, if you go to the country where they are from, no one would accuse them of being too thin because that's the norm.
When we compare them with the population here, of course they are going to be perceived as abnormal.
I'm 6'1'' and around 185 lbs. My grandmother calls me "fat boy" everytime I see her. You know why? Because I'm Asian and I'm not suppose to be this big! How the hell did I get this big when everyone else in my family is petite.
23
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 6:57PM
First, ms. astley never even mentions that the models' thinness may be a health problem. She simply says they may look more beautiful with more pounds. That is the problem. People should be concerned about health, not what the ideal beautiful size is. And healthy can be a variety of sizes, as can unhealthy.
Also, does no one enjoy the irony of a woman who eats vitamins, lattes, and canapes as her meals for the day (as noted in her NYMag food diary), discussing problems of weight and health?
24
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 7:06PM
Maybe her point is that the classic argument is that looking at models makes girls starve themselves, but if you look at the actual statistics people are overweight so they generally arent starving themselves?
I don't know, I think its disgusting that the average american woman is 5'4 and 165 lbs. That is unhealthy and it should not be acceptable.
26
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 8:26PM
to 25: because there are also many images of men in the media who are NOT the gorgeous models with sixpacks. The problem is not that there are skinny models, the problem is that ALL of the models are REALLY skinny. It implies that no other body type is acceptable. It is a completely separate issue than health - there are very healthy women in all shapes and sizes.
27
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 8:33PM
This teen vogue readin 16 year old, size 0-2 (pretty normal for a teen, believe me, I eat plenty.) doesn't think that showing rather average girls, with boobs (not that I have any, but that's another issue) and, you know, less exposed bones would drive anyone to obesity. It would certainly make normal girls, like me, feel more normal.
Oh, and I know what obfuscate means, to whichever commenter commented on that.
28
posted by royalprincess
May 15, 2009 10:34PM
I totally agree with Amy Astley, models are too thin, a little bit of lb won't hurt. My 12 year old has started a new craze of Kellogs Special K after seeing all the adds.
30
posted by Jean Voltaire
May 16, 2009 12:51AM
#5 - Models have not ALWAYS been thin.
As for the whole situation with models and anorexia in the fashion industry - it never really goes away does it? Sure some big names in fashion try and talk about it for a month, only to have the issue completely forgotten.
I am not a supporter of women taking extremes in the industry to make themselves super thin, but at the end of the day the fact remains: designers want super thin models for their super thin samples.
I really think it's time for people to stop talking about the issue and start acting on it. If not then accept the fact that you are all going to continue seeing extremely thin models on the runways...
32
posted by guest
May 16, 2009 2:35AM
I think it was incredibly irresponsible for Amy to address this issue, or rather, merely defend herself, in this way. The readers of this magazine are teenagers and young girls, and perhaps instead of being defensive and shifting the topic to obesity (which I really found isolating) she should have spoke more about body acceptance or...I don't know, just did I a better job of that letter.
35
posted by guest
May 16, 2009 9:42AM
I think Amy's point was that if you hold out abnormally thin women as the ideal to a country of (primarily)overweight women, it's not exactly the worse thing in the world. In other words, if we were glorifying a size 20 figure that would probably be more damaging to American health. Even the average size 14 (with an average height of 5'4) as one commentor pointed out, is probably unhealthy for the vast majority of women.
36
posted by guest
May 16, 2009 1:55PM
I agree with the posters who say that Astley should be talking about health, not just body weight. Moreover, I don't think the choices are as binary as super-skinny role models and obese role models. As Jean Voltaire commented, fashion models haven't always been superthin.
I don't think holding up extreme thinness as an ideal inspires girls to eat right and exercise (especially if those extremely thin role models aren't naturally built that way). It also doesn't motivate them to maintain a healthy body weight so that don't become obese or put themselves at risk for heart disease. From my experiences, it just inspires them to be as skinny as possible.
A commenter above referred to Astley's statement as fatuous, and I have to agree completely. Just because most girls haven't been diagnosed with eating disorders doesn't mean they are completely and totally happy with their bodies and have no self-image issues related to weight.
37
posted by guest
May 16, 2009 2:33PM
It's poster #36 (again). I just wanted to add that people with eating disorders can also be overweight. Binge eaters, for instance, don't always have the superthin bodies we associate with anorexia. Just because a woman is a size 20 doesn't mean she's as comfortable with herself as Beth Ditto. She could be a binge eater or a cutter. Being overweight and having an eating disorder aren't mutually exclusive.
38
posted by guest
May 16, 2009 5:52PM
NO ONE is the same weight and proportion. Its shit that eating disorders exist and whether that leads to obesity or anorexia its the same thing an unhealthy relationship with food. Amy was basically that she would like to see models with a few more pounds on them but lay off because obesity is a bigger problem in america than anorexia. Whether that is true or not i dont know, but i wouldnt worry this women is hardly a great influence on the masses.
39
posted by guest
May 16, 2009 7:13PM
this is such a cop out on amy's part and is completely oversimplifying the issue. like other people have said, i dont think showing overweight girls extremely thin models is going to make them want to lose weight - if anything it will make a "healthy" weight seem all the more unattainable. if a size 14 girl sees size 8 models, she might be inspired, but if all she sees is size zero it makes looking good seem impossible.
if amy thinks models would look better with a few more pounds (and i dont think she actually does), she should start using them. and if the clothes only really look good on impossibly skinny girls, maybe that says something about the clothes. im sick of the fashion industury, and especially of teen vogue, making so many excuses just to avoid changing.
40
posted by guest
May 17, 2009 2:47AM
Yes, Ms.Astley, only about 1% are anorexic. But I bet you have no idea how specific or extreme the criteria for an actual diagnosis of anorexia nervosa are or how difficult they are to meet. Guess what?Those stats you're looking at probably are based on official diagnoses. Let's think for a second about all the girls with bulimia nervosa or EDNOS, or even just disordered eating. Some of these illnesses can be just as severe or even worse. Yes, obesity is a huge issue, but don't think for a second that anorexia is the only disorder with ties to the unrealistic standards set by the models YOU choose.
41
posted by guest
May 17, 2009 4:09AM
As a model, I was never asked to lose any weight. To be more toned, yes. That means that the already lean body which I had was going to be: bones, blood, muscles and skin. I have always been this way... As a child I never stopped moving, and I come from a country from the 'eastern bloc', if that's how you want to call it, so from a young age, I was fed healthy things, in small quantities. The hunger epidemic, because it has reached that status in Africa, presented itself in these countries as well. My parents had no money for "treats"; the first time I saw Laduree macarons I thought I was dreaming. Now, I know I'm not a singular case, but I also know that some of my friends were completely overwhelmed by this world, and maybe as a result of other psychological illnesses, they thought that in order to become accomplished, to get the hell out of home and stay somewhere, they had to sacrifice their bodies. Then, another argument comes into play: when you're working show season after show season, you sort of get used to running around, doing exhausting things, and as a result, your diet becomes more scarce. Most of the time, it's worth it just to see your face and photos on style.com, to bag that ad campaign where they will airbrush any flaws, and to see an image of yourself which you love, but which many people aspire to not knowing that it's made to measure.
So it's a combination of everything: movement, constant movement, working out so that your legs don't wobble, drinking water so that your skin becomes translucent, finally affording little luxuries like massages and spa treatments....
And not knowing if you're going to be out of a job when your look is no longer au courant.
Being a model is just like any other job. But some people think it's easy to achieve just by being extremely thin.
I think that Astley should have kept her mouth (pen) shut. This was unnecessary. It was like, "wow, I need to release a statement, because I'm so important."
Teen Vogue is dead in Europe. What will it bring to America?
43
posted by guest
May 17, 2009 12:21PM
This is a classic case of derailing! (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/)
Also, I am totally confused by the tone of this excerpt. It's as if Astley is washing her hands of all responsibility for the content of the magazine. I was under the impression that she had some say in that, being an editor and all. If she would like to have models with a few more pounds, why doesn't she take some steps towards making that happen? It's not like she can change the fashion industry single-handedly, but I'm sure she has at least a small role.
I think we're all aware that obesity is a problem in the US. We don't need Amy Astley to remind us, especially when she's simply using it as a device to avoid answering criticism about something she actually has some control over.
44
posted by etoilee8
May 17, 2009 12:53PM
Bravo 43. You put it better than I ever could. I am sick of fashion editors acting like their hands are tied when it comes to dealing with issues of body image. They're as responsible for the content in those magazines are we are for patronizing it and letting it slip under the rug for so long.
45
posted by Laroux
May 17, 2009 1:18PM
It may be horrible, but I see those models as motivation to not be obese!! Every girl looks in the pages of magazines and feel instantly inadequate, which is unhealthy because we should all feel beautiful no matter what weight we're at. However, looking at those models gives me extra incentive to run harder on that treadmill, though I do feel like this country's idea of beautiful is unattainable.
Tessa
46
posted by guest
May 17, 2009 8:30PM
i can not believe she had the nerve to say that.
she was basically saying that because there are more fat people in American, then ones suffering from mental disorders, we need to stop criticizing the fashion industry for promoting unhealthy body image. So until there are more anorexics than obese people in the world, we should stand by and let girls feel bad about themselves when they look at unrealistic photos in magazines? and by saying that only one percent of the population is anorexic, also shows how unrealistic the bodies that are portrayed in magazines are. According to what she says, i guess it would be more realistic to put obese people in magazines, because there are more obese people than there are skinny people in American.
wow that woman is such an idiot.
47
posted by Signature9
May 18, 2009 5:18AM
You only have to go to the 90s to find examples of models who were thin, but not sickly looking. Yes, there are some people who are naturally stick thin. No, they don't exist in the numbers of those who fill magazine pages and runways. If you compare Naomi Campbell or Claudia Schiffer or any super (at their most active) with the models of today, you see a big difference. It's such a cop out that when anyone calls out an editor or designer on the unhealthy image they force, they default to "well, most people are too fat."
A size 22 is rarely healthy, but in the same vein it's rare that you find a 5'11" size 0/2 person who's healthy at that weight either. However, in between that there are perfectly healthy women who are a size 6 or 8, who have boobs and/or hips without being obese or anywhere near it. Fashion shouldn't be a vacuum where the only solution to glorifying one extreme would be glorifying one at the opposite end.
48
posted by guest
May 22, 2009 5:20PM
Hi I am a model, I'm 5'9 with 24 inch waist, 35.5 inch hips and my REAL age is 26 but I'm repersented as 22.
I work out at least five times a week sometimes seven, I watch what I eat and yes I have been gentically blessed, thanks to my lean parents. While aneroxia is an issue and some girls do starve themselves I don't think it's fair to blame the fashion industry. Yes the standards are very high,I should know as I am constantly told I'm too big to do highend runway, but there it is. In no way am I going to starve myself to become a runway model, people with aneroxia have deeper issues it's not about wanting to be thin its about control. So lets not blast Amy for saying what is true. Cause my girl friends that envy me for my figure are the same ones sitting on the couch after work and eating fried food for lunch. Sorry loves you can't have it all!
49
posted by guest
May 22, 2009 10:32PM
Guest 48- I'm sorry, but the majority of women do not have your body type and could never get to those proportions even if they excercized 24/7 and never looked at ice cream again, that's just how body chemistry works.
I'm a size 6 and perfectly healthy. I ride my bike everyday and eat perfectly fine, but every month when I recieve my teen vogue I feel like picking up a cheeseburger. Why? Because the models make me feel absolutely awful about myself. So Ms. Astley, thanks for washing your hands from all responsibility from the issue. Just because obesity is an issue in America does not make what you do by refusing to put anyone above a size zero in your magazine okay.
posted by guest
May 15, 2009 2:01PM
hahah how obnoxious